Divorce looming #14

[CityGirl]

As far as I, Kevin am... I really need to think on this. I am hoping the counseling will help me figure this one out.

Have you made an outline of ALL the issues you and your C will need to address over time? Have you created an immediate plan as well as a long term plan for your C'ing journey? Also, be sure to mention to your C that funds are an issue as he/she might have some options for you. IMO going in with a plan of some sort is necessary and staying very solution focused is key. Rehashing old issues over and over again will not be effective and you need to learn the tools to manage and grow your life now.


That is a tough question to answer. I wasn't very focused in school. I dropped out in high school. Then I got my GED and went to college. Then I chose to quit and be with W and we both worked from there to build our life.

This, IMO, is some very blatant info. You quit your education to be with your W. Why couldnt you do both? IMO a good marriage is one where both spouses can pursue and grow as individuals AND as a couple/team. You let your personal growth fly out the window once she came along and honestly, that just may be where the downfall started. It is necessary to build YOUR life and the life of a marriage and it can be done at the same time. You really need to ask yourself why you chose one over the other when both where very possible.

I was ambitious at the beginning of my career with insight from her showing me why I should be. But then as the years went on and I did better, I got complacant. I felt like we were doing fine financially and I was satified money wise between what we were both bringing in. I can't say that I really excelled at anything in school. I don't feel like I am as smart or as quick as other people on things. I have never really ever been able to organize well or take notes at all and also follow along with what is going on. I really need help in organizing and taking notes. That could be a good class to take.

Well, there are some good goals right there and onces you can begin at once. Learning to be organized and taking notes can be self taught on there are hundreds of free resources online and at the library to get you started. You say you arent as smart as others. Why do you think that is? You said you basically let your W guide your career. Why would you put that sort of pressure on your spouse for YOUR career. Sure, getting support and input is important but allowing her to guide it for you smacks of neediness and may be one very solid reason as why she does not view you as a strong man capable of handling his own business.

Today W and D11 were on their way to pick up D7 and had a tire shredded on the interstate. W calls me to tell me about it. I said do I need to head up there, obviously concerned. She said no she is handling it and she took care of it. Then later on she sends me a text telling me they are ok and back on the road. Ok, I'm glad they are safe and everything is ok. But I couldn't for the life of me figure out why she called me if she didn't need any help. Then later she tells me she called to just let me know incase they were running behind. Ok.

Again, you wasted time trying to figure out why she did something when that time could have been spent in a far more productive manner (like say, working on your counseling outline, working out or some other "Kevin" activity). And at the end of the tire ordeal she told you why she called - to show you courtesy as a co-parent that she might be late. What did the wasted time and energy you spent thinking about why she called provide you? NOTHING except allowing your W to again consume your thoughts to the extreme.

Tonite I go over to W's house for dinner and to get the kids for the week. We made seafood and talked all evening and joked and helped each other get the kids ready and make dinner and clean up. I'm thinking what a great evening it was. And it really was. Well, of course, W tells me she has a "friend" coming back from Santa Fe that is taking her out for her birthday dinner and she is booked all week. Right away I know who this friend is. Its original OM. She slept with him for his birthday and I'm pretty sure he is returning the favor. She always says a friend when it is him and he is the one that travels for business. I don't say anything though.

I am glad you didnt say anything. Stop speculating what may or may not happen or you will continue to drive yourself crazy. Again, she clearly is telling you this to drill in your head you and her, at this time, are only co-parents.

As I pack up the car and get the kids in, W hugs each of them and tells them she loves them and goodbye. I close D7's door and turn around to tell W goodbye and she has already started walking off. I was like, dang. I was fooling myself thinking we had a great night. I told her good night and thanks for dinner she said good night and went in and closed the door.

What did you think would happen after your "great night"? That she would drop to her knees and beg you to come home and live happily ever after? Once again you really need to work on managing your expectations. Your "great night" should have been solely focused around the children but it wasnt, it was all about your W.

Ya, the usual, I thought about it the whole way back home. The girls were arguing tonite and W tells me she is glad to send them to me for the week. Apparently they argued all week. They have been doing this for a while now. I am trying to figure out how to control it. But I couldn't believe W said that. I love having my kids. I know it was only out of frusturation. But still. I would never say that. And she said it in front of them. I know she loves them and cares about them. But she sure is different now. She just seemed more than happy to be rid of them for a week.

So, you spent the whole way home with your kids in the car thinking about your W instead of talking with your kids. Instead of getting your kids excited about the upcoming week, talking about plans, asking them about school or whatever you obsessed on your W. If one goal is to be a better parent then you must focus 110% on your children when you are with them.

And yes, your W is different now and you should be too. You are both acting as single parents and its a whole new ballgame for both of you. IMO its natural for both of you to need a break.

So who is Kevin? Maybe I will be able to answer that tomorrow after counseling. I will give it some good thought tomorrow as it is late tonite.

Good luck with your appt. But keep your expectations reasonable... it will take months and months of C'ing to really figure out who you are and why you resist becoming who you want to be as an individual. One or two sessions wont "fix" things. Dedicate yourself to the process.

[25yearsmlc]

What CityGirl said . To re-emphasize one of her many good points...

Instead of addressing your d's behavior in the car, or asking them about their take on the evening or the games played, OR about school OR about planning something for them in any way.....you were in your own world again, NOT availble to them again.

Instead it was all about you and your needs and expectations and obsessing MORE about your W AGAIN and you wasted precious fathering time. The obsessing was crazy since the expectations were so out of line with reality...what were you thinking Kevin? Why on earth would you think A SINGLE pleasant evening together, means you are a step away from reconciling?) You expected a HUG from her? Why? You are divorcing! Isn't it enough that she can be in a room with you? Do you recall only some weeks ago, she could not be in the same house with you? She told you that you repulsed her and she "hated" you....so dear God, BACK OFF with the out of line expectations...honestly I don't know where you are getting those hopes from....your needs are blinding you to how impatient you are and it is SO NOT LOVING...(that's right, NOT LOVING OF YOU)

Do you really think A "DATE" (IF you had one) would FIX this?

That she'll slap her forehead and say "What was I thinking? Now that you are so strong and disciplined, AND DIFFERENT, I want back in and let's move in together and have more kids and ALL will be well and and and..." wake up Kevin...Wake up. You are not different yet! That's what the c is for, so, use it wisely. Please.


You have been acting like a bucket of need, with a hole in the bucket. No one could possibly fill all your needs nor should they, but you wanted that from your w. And for awhile, you got it. Then she tired of not having a real partner... so Stop being burdensome and needy. Not in front of her at least. Please realize it NEVER worked! It did the opposite.

Kevin, tell us how to get thru to you...WE NEED TO KNOW. And ask the c how long it will take YOU to change yourself if you try hard to do so? That's the only timeline you should consider. (Instead of the polls you take on other threads about how long affairs last. Kev, your wife is not having AN AFFAIR...she is dating more than one OM and she is living the life of a single woman and has made it very clear that she intends to continue that. From her standpoint, you are lucky that she "lets" you have the kids so much and from her financial standpoint, she knows if the divorce is finalized she MAY have to pay you more (b/c the law requires her to, unless you insist on not taking any support, which is a bad idea on your end. Getting child support b/c she earns more than you, may not seem attractive to you and we all know you think it'll make a diff in how she views you. But I'm arguing that 1) she may see you as a guy who stands up for himself and isn't a doormat AND plans for his d's future, but BESIDES THAT-- for a guy who can't afford any nice things or activities for his kids, OR C for himself, you are letting false pride get in the way. If you really don't need the money, (which you do) then save it for the girl's education which they will appreciate someday. Would you rather your w spend that money on a vacation with OM?
She's not thinking to herself, "what a great guy Kevin is for not taking any money from me for the girls...I sure am attracted to him for that..."

Truth is, divorcing you will cost her money. So while I am not SURE why she didn't finalize the divorce... I'm guessing that if she wanted to reconcile with you, she would not be dating OM and telling you about it...

Let the c get thru to you Kev. Please. Good luck, we'll all be praying for you.

(( j ))

[Ready2Change]

Hi Kevin,

Could you give short answers to the following two questions?

1) What can I do for you?

2) What can everyone(ANYONE) else here do for you?

Hang in there buddy. Everything will be OK.

[K4D]

Well, I went to my counseling appointment. My counselor is a young guy earning his masters degree. I'm his first divorce case. Ok, fine. I will play along. He is going to see if he can help me. Yes I gave him a list of things primarily dealing with me and my own inabilities to be happy alone. Apparently they assign you a counselor and these are people who are supervised by real doctors. Interesting scenerio. But hey, the service is free. So why not give it a shot right? Lets see what the kid can do. So I guess I have appointments Monday nights.

So W has the kids for me while I am at the appointment. I get over to her place and she puts in a frozen pizza for me. Very hospitable of her. So we are talking about the events her family has lined up for her this week. Her mom obviously doesn't want me there for any of them. So I make the comment that ya, nobody in the family will stand up to her mom. She agrees. So I ask her, why don't you? Ooooh I am so gonna get 2x4'd for this. But I wanted to hear it for my own self. She said her mom and her are still arguing about a previous argument they had and she doesn't want another one on top of it. I said ok. So then I say, you know, I'm half tempted to show up Wednesday despite your mom. I knew this would get the truth out. So W says she doesn't want to deal with either of our crap and then looks at me and tells me she didn't invite me anyways. Ahhh. Finally the truth from her own lips. All this time for these events and she had been telling me her mom was fully behind it. And her mom is against me. But I just wanted to hear if W was also part of it or just playing her mom up on it. Ok. So now I definitely know from her own lips.

Oh well... so I get the kids and we head home. Yes, I know what you all are going to say. I already knew and shouldn't have pursued it. But I really wanted to hear it straight from her mouth.

Anyways, I was doing some research today and I ran across this. It is interesting. I need to finish reading it as I ran short on time earlier today. http://www.joebeam.com/intervention.htm
Intervening in the situation of self delusion.

I feel like I am just about at my wits end with this M. I don't know why she let it get dismissed. And I feel like I just want to tell her to snap out of this fantasy world she is living in and wake up and realize that she has a marriage and family that matters. But until she snaps out of this fantasy world, it just won't make a difference.

So who is Kevin? That wasn't answered tonite as we spent time mainly doing paper work. The C said we would start the real counseling next week.

For now, I am nobody. I'm a face in the crowd. I'm somebody to some and nobody to others. I have 2 daughters that argue constantly now. I have a mind that can't unwrap itself from my W. I have an apartment and an 11 year old camry with a dent in the bumper that is paid for and I have a job that I go to from 8:30 to 4:30. I have people that know me as Kevin. But Kevin himself is just here. Kevin's identity is a mystery. What is Kevin passionate about? Kevin used to be passionate about football and soccer as far as watching it goes. Maybe I could join a flag football team. That could be fun to do. Those are short seasons though. Then what do I do the rest of the year?

I see what you all are saying about poker not really doing anything for you because as soon as I come home I am stuck back in that same rut again. BTW, the poker was free to play. I don't be rent money and I am trying to save money which also limits things I do.

I guess I could buy a bike and start training for competitions or something. That could be fun. I used to like playing video games. I no longer do. Alot of my interests died inside me when all this D stuff started going down. I even started switching teams I watched and leagues I watched just so they were the same that me and W watched together.

That is a tough question to answer.

Kevin

[K4D]

I meant to say at the end so they were not the same that me and W watched.

Kevin

[K4D]

R2C,

I don't know.

Kevin

[ppenton]

Kevin, this is long road and it seems you like to make it longer and tougher than it needs to be. Yes, you should get 2x4d and not sure why you needed to hear it from your wife's lips as we all heard it loud and clear from her and we are not even in the same room as your W. Anyway, good luck with the C and if he doesn't pan out find another one.

[K4D]

Oh, W did say that her "friend" coming back from Santa Fe canceled on her. She wasn't to happy about it. I didn't say anything.

I finished reading that intervention link I posted. That is really interesting. I recommend reading it. I don't have the right set up for it though.

Maybe I should become a psychiatrist. I wonder how long it would take me to get through school doing that. They get paid good money to sit back and just ask you questions and then throw out ideas generated from who knows where. What is interesting is if you ever look at these peoples lives, it seems like their lives are more screwed up than yours. So no wonder they are able to help you out. lol.

Kevin

[K4D]

Actually, that was probably a generalization I probably should not have made. Apparently a psychiatrist has to go through 4 years of medical school as well. A psychologist doesn't. They just have a ba or bs and a masters and phd.

I wonder how I would pursue a psychiatry degree though.

Kevin

[traveldane]

perhaps you should just start with focusing on the counseling.

don't worry about what the guy you see did in school or how random his job process seems to be or what you would need to do to follow in his footsteps. You can do all that later.

Take this in steps. First, counseling for you, that's how you got here right? Counseling first. Commit to going regularly and just follow along with what he asks. Go home and think about things. Go back the next time and tell him what you've thought about. Listen to what he says, answer the questions, think some more, follow directions, and be patient.

Good luck.