Why not?

[antlers]

How are you enabling this? Do you think you can control the guy? Do you think you can control him by legally separating from him? Do you think you can control him by filing for divorce? YOU CAN'T CONTROL HIM! So don't bother trying!

Right now, keep working on yourself, and help the kids as much as possible. Real change and improvement on your end, that only comes with time and consistency, will manditorily change how he relates to you. It has to! Remember that with relationships between two people, if one person changes...the relationship changes! That's the dynamics of it. Have faith that it will get better.

You are a rock. You are steady and solid. Sometimes your emotions run away with you. Don't feel too bad about it either...it happens to all of us. Just resolve to get better at it. We can do this.

[aliveandkicking]

You know, I'm just tired. I could organize and live on 1/3 of what H makes. I could have a schedule with the kids that he has to stick to and he would get a place and have to deal with his own bills and his own sh*t and his own creation.

I'm sorry, he's in luxury digs right now basically pretending he's something he's not. And what am I? The chopped liver soon to be ex wife who thinks he's worth an ounce of my time...

Sorry, I just got off the phone with him...

Honestly, Antlers, I just don't know. I better be damn clear that he may just be getting by and biding his time until he can get his own place and live the dream...I do NOT want to have some fanciful notion and then be a martyr or be disappointed. I am losing sight of any possible scenario in which we are a stable and happy pair.

Anyway, back to your post. I will read it again.

[antlers]

How long do you think the way he's living is gonna last? It can't last for very long. It's not sustainable. I know you're tired aliveandkicking! Living like this is HARD! This guy is 'lost' right now. He's in the fog, and he doesn't know what he wants. That's why DB'n talks so much about patience! You gotta decide if he's worth it to you, and then do whatever it takes to get the desired outcome that you want! First and foremost...take care of yourself! No martyrdom! Sleep on it aliveandkicking...your emotions are working on you right now.

[aliveandkicking]

Well, this has been long because it was the same issues in the M. It has just been building and building. The difference now is that I am a softer and gentler me and focusing on myself more...but, I think this crisis started a long time ago and he has been building up to this, thus my loneliness and withholding in the M. Remember, I was like many of the WAW on here. I was just too stubbornly committed to marriage to leave. So, imagine your wife as worn out and deserving of better treatment just being served more on top of it...do you get what I'm saying? I deserve so much more...

[babymama]

First boundary...say NO to taking the kids to the house. I am finding that where the kids are concerned, setting boundaries becomes VERY CLEAR. IMO you should tell him that when he has a place of his own, or is subletting then he can have them part of the time, and can take him where he wants (within reason of course.) I think that in my sitch, once H got his place and has now started to take them for his time (and away from me) he has really started to see how he is effecting the kids, and our family. Your H hasn't had to man up to anything like that yet. That is another boundary that you can set once he is out and as much as it will suck...it will also help you to go darker, GAL, and work on you. Your H will have no choice but to face the consequenses of his actions more squarely.
This could be a reason you are getting so hung up on the legal separation or D...because you haven't gotten to hand the kids over to him...and he hasn't had to share the responsibilities AT ALL!!!!
It has been my plan to hold off on ANY talk/threat of being the one to file anything. I will call his bluff until he files himself.

The waterfight sounds like it was great. And he even said it was fun...positive stuff. Go with it as being a benefit in your sitch that these moments exist. He is checking on you. It is nice of him, so take it.
Even if you think he is strining you along...who cares. He is doing so because he is not ready to throw in the towel and sometimes we can look at this as a positive sign, IMO. The hope is alive. If I thought you didn't have a handle on taking care of YOU, some of this advice probably wouldn't be appropriate.
When you REALLY do forgive him, these moments of love, peace, and kindness become more genuine. He will notice it.
I think it is OK to tell him how you feel sometimes. When I tear up in front of H I always acknowledge it and move on. One thing that DR tells us is to talk softly. I think it is so important and can be a 180 if you are normally chatty.
You are DBing. And I think you are incredibly healthy and aware of how important you are in this life. You know you will be OK. But what about DBing your A** off???? What about consciously making maneuvers that will get him thinking even if he doesn't say anything. For example, I had a piece of paper sitting out and I knew H was coming over so i scribbled a guys mane and a phone # and purposefully left it on the counter. H saw it, didn't say a word...but it can be easily explained away...and he can wonder. Or not. The point is that it is proactive. Or set up a phone call for when you know you will be with him and excuse yourself mysteriously to take the call. I think this will help with #13 on your list. If he is there, you might as well be utilizing that time wisely.

Do you watch Californication?? I picture your H like David Duchovny! Mr. Cool Guy rock-star that he is! Well, in that show...David Duchovny lives that lifestyle and is addicted to it, but ONLY really truly happy when he is with his ex who is a FABULOUS woman. That is the whole jist of the show.

Glad to hear about the work sitch. Hope that helps you out.

i don't think it is a good idea for the MC suggestion YET. And that is against DBing. In fact so is talkin about the R and you guys keep doing it. Hopefully you aren't the one bringing it up.

I am so tired...but i have more comments on your list!!

I still feel funny giving advice, but I wanted to chime in...usually I mostly read and agree with stuff people have already written!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sleep well.

[aliveandkicking]

Thanks. You give great advice.

I don't think I have much say if he wants to hang out with the kids somewhere. They wont sleep there.

Californication- we used to watch that together...Ummm...that dude is NEVER gonna change. That is just so perfect.

I do lots of little maneuvers, trust me.

Yes, R talks are initiated by him but usually he says something that under most circumstances I can just let slide and I just cave at that moment. I'm on the spot or something. It has been a few days.

I agree with you about the MC in your sitch. Probably not right now. As long as you can keep DBing and not expect "answers," YKWIM? I think if you are struggling too much, MC can sometimes help. But overall, I agree with you.

I can forgive him for leaving me to pursue his dreams. It is hard to forgive him hurting our kids and impacting their lives and providing such cr*ppy modeling. They are boys, they are watching him. Plus, it is easier to forgive something that is past tense. I have to try to forgive all of the cr*p that is yet to come and my kids' lives being so dramatically impacted.

I agree with you on the legal stuff too. At least your H had the b*lls to get his own place. In my sitch, I feel like H is getting just about everything...family time, his things are safe, I'm his "friend"...I don't want to be punitive but this is getting too weird. I mean today, we were literally running around like teenagers and we had so much fun but we should have snuck behind a tree and scr*wed, the sexual tension was so palpable. And I'm thinking, when one of us gets a new OP, are we just going to be best friends and everyone will wonder why the heck we aren't together?

The work sitch is probably not going to pan out BUT, it was just so random and in sync with what I've been thinking about. I love when that stuff happens.

I eagerly await your "more comments." This site is a Godsend.

[SmileysPerson]

I can forgive him for leaving me to pursue his dreams. It is hard to forgive him hurting our kids and impacting their lives and providing such cr*ppy modeling. They are boys, they are watching him.

I've seen this notion referred to rather a lot around here -- the "boys are watching WAH" (though interestingly -- perhaps it's random -- one never sees "the girls are watching WAW").

That's probably true, but the use / invocation of the phrase seems to be directed at the following implication (at least to my mind): "and are learning bad lessons about manhood and will almost certainly wind up being WAHsholes themselves if H doesn't come back NOW."

Couldn't it be the case that the "boys are watching WAH" is / could be followed by this implication: "and are learning good lessons about manhood and will almost certainly wind up being far better H's than WAH because they're experiencing what WAHdom means?"

[aliveandkicking]

Unfortunately a woman leaving is often seen as a sign of strength and empowerment. Kind of makes me sick. Met a WAW the other night at a party...spoke my truth anyway. We got a long very well so I think I made my point with out being offensive. You know, "every situation is different," etc.

Yes the girls are watching their mothers and I think it is a heartbreak for all children when they are not given a model of commitment and love.

Unfortunately, I saw H as someone who wound up being far a better H than his WADad because he experienced what WAdaddom means?

Is he better than his dad? Yes. Is he following in his dad's footsteps, yes.

And the forgiveness is about all of the confusion and added stress and financial, logistical and emotional difficulties associated with H's behavior AND his fanning the flames of their insecurity by putting so much stock in BS Lalaland fabulosity. I see the effect it has on them.

[Coach]

I love the idea of standing for my marriage but I don't love the idea of being used and legally attached to someone who has a completely separate life.

When do you feel used?
Do you feel used when you tell the truth?

[SmileysPerson]

fanning the flames of their insecurity by putting so much stock in BS Lalaland fabulosity

That's a whole other support board (cue: rueful LOL). We'll have to talk that one out over coffee. I worry about it in lots of ways, especially with S's 10th coming up.