GETTING UN'STUCK'

[MrBond]

kara,

thanks also for your list. Trust me, I'm writing notes and keeping these for WHEN my divorce is busted!

How is that for positive thinking!

[MrBond]

sandi,

You are so right about the name calling. When I was writing out my list of things that she might have found appealing about the OM, it came down to one thing...he treated her like an individual.

So what I've decided to do is to treat her like a woman when we interact. No pet names, but her first name. Every day I make it a point to ask her how her day was even when I don't get the same. I try to give her little compliments here and there so they don't seem like I'm sucking up to her.

And I have been trying to see things through her eyes when I'm dealing with her so that I can react compassionately.

One example was last night when she didn't want to talk to my Mom in the hospital. I was disappointed but I didn't make a big deal about it like I would have in the past. I figured she was a bit ashamed to talk to my mom at the time. Then I went back and made the conversation as light and fun as possible. I think she was relieved about that because she lightened up quite a bit after.

I'm combining that with GALing so that it gives her the space she needs to work on herself. I hope it's working.

[MrBond]

Sandi,

Oh and I think you're right on about the "sensing" bit from her. So I've also been trying to project as many positive feelings from me as possible and not seem needy or not trying to seek reassurance from her. I do what I do because I want to do it and not because I expect something for those actions.

See I can be taught!

[MrBond]

FightingFit,

Thanks for catching up with me. You and the others are right about the detaching and being like friends. I totally understand what you mean about it being tiring sometimes. I would actually add that it gets emotionally draining where we wonder "why are we doing this?"

Funny thing is that something always comes along (including the many friends I have on this board) that lets me hold on just one more day and the day after that, etc.

The lessons I've learned here have been invaluable in that not only do I understand now what it means to love someone unconditionally, but also how to detach and let that person discover their own happiness.

Thanks for being there.

[25yearsmlc]

Sandi,

Oh and I think you're right on about the "sensing" bit from her. So I've also been trying to project as many positive feelings from me as possible and not seem needy or not trying to seek reassurance from her. I do what I do because I want to do it and not because I expect something for those actions.

See I can be taught!

You are educable! That makes you the 2% of us...seriously, I just threw that number out. Fact is, WE can and Do change, IF we want to enough. Period. We want it badly enough, we go get the tools to do it.
And you are. Which will sometime soon make you, a man only a fool would leave. No matter what, you will be alright.

(( j ))

[MrBond]

25mlc,

Thank you so much for finding my thread. Your words on kevin's thread and others have been invaluable in giving me a raw look as to what to do in my own sitch.

For the 180s, I do see how you feel they can be emotionally empowering. It's just that those emotional batteries need to be re-charged every now and then. For me, this place is what gives me my Energizers!

I definitely agree with you about the shame part. I think it's only natural when we first find out about an A that we shame our partners because we feel betrayed. I think in one of my R talks with my W, I told her that she could never understand what I'm going through in dealing with her A. Like many others, I do get flashbacks or post traumatic stress episodes when something is similar to our sitch.

I admit that I still have the lingering jealousy and anger that came from it, but I try not to let it show to her and I pray alot to God for him to forgive me for my feelings and to help me get rid of them because I do not want to let anger run my life. Alot of the reading I've done has helped too. I'll definitely check out Blue Like Jazz like you suggested.

Your analogy of treating my W as a co-worker I found attractive was perfect! I've been having the hardest time to figure out what was appropriate to do and just lacked the frame of reference. I think that would work just nicely so I'm going to try it out.

It matches with my strategy of treating her with compassion by seeing things from her POV when we interact, yet staying emotionally detached so that I'm not affected by her actions. I can give without expecting anything in return. That's what true unconditional love is anyway. All this while GAL.

I think I have been projecting an anxiousness towards her. I've also got to calm that down so that she doesn't feel pressure. We'll see how that goes.

Thanks for the compliment about the writing. Weird but I always thought you were the most articulate one on everyone's posts. With what you went through you are a real inspiration for the rest of us.

I can't wait till my D is busted so that I can follow in your footsteps.

[sandi2]

Hummmmm.........Stuck I'm glad you got the anology. I know that on some of my old posts that I've told you the very same thing so this tells the story of what kind of shape you have been in! Right? Stands to reason due to all the stress and agony and maybe you can even understand her a little better. You see, I know you've been given basically the same advice from most of us and yet you NEED to hear it over & over b/c you get bogged down in your negative emotions and it's like everything you've heard here goes by the way side. Then somebody tells you again and it's like....."Oh, yeah, okay!" LOL........but that is true for all of us when we are in this type of stitch. That is why we must stand behind our posters and hang with them b/c a one time fix of DB doctrine is not going to work. Repetive learning, like the kids get in school is what we all have to do. As mentioned......it never ends.

Yet my W couldn't spend 30 seconds just to say 'hello'.

I know everyone's going to say it's because she's uncomfortable, or ashamed, etc. And I understand. It's just sad on her part. Plus she's a nurse who's supposed to be the compassionate one.

It is the shame and huge embarrasment of the whole EA. I would not have been able to handle any of my in-laws or anyone like that knowing about my EA. I would think it even takes getting over the tramatic process of getting back to a "normal" state....much harder b/c you she has to deal with the fact people "know" about her. That's hard, Stuck. And, you ARE treating her and talking like it was a PA. I agree with 25Years. It did not go physical and even though an EA is and can become very serious, she did not go to that next level. You are wounded and feel betrayed, but it was an "emotional" thing.......not a physical affair. There is a lot of difference there. How many times have you looked at a sexy woman and lusted after her? Bet you didn't tell your wife every time you lusted after a hot young thing, did you? But you see that as being "different" and that is just what men do, right? Well, women opperate in a different realm. I won't get into all of that b/c I don't have time this morning, but I want so badly for you to be able to let go of the problem that YOU have. You will never be able to detach or be friends or do any of the DBing techniques properely until you can come to terms about this EA thing within yourself. She made a mistake........a really bad mistake. What if it was turned around and it had been you that got attached to another female you were attracted to? How would you want your W to deal with it?

On a note to 25Years regarding Puppy Dog Tails.......... I love Pup but I have to say that he and I have been around and around over some issues of the exposing the A, etc. I finally tried to read his old thread (most of it, anyway) and it helped me to see his POV, but I have yet to see a positive outcome from that approach. I know some other men took that advice and did the same thing.....and they felt good about it, but it has not completely healed the M as to date.....that I am aware of....may be some I've not heard about. I do believe in certain cases that a "tough love" approach is needed as Dr. James Dobson teaches in his book with the same title. He is actually teaching DBing but he carries it to another level when having a "crazy" spouse who expects you to accept them bringing their lover into the house or some such nonsense.

My POV has been that it goes back to what we've said about the cold, judgmental arms of the H. Why would a WW want to crawl into a bed with somebody that treated her that way? Something to think about.

Oh, I can't stay on here........I have to go make a living!

Talk to you all later,
Sandi

[25yearsmlc]

Have not seen ONE marriage reconciled, meaningfully, by exposing. Yes it can end the A, or make them do the "us against them" thing too. But no one is attracted to a "shame maker", if they're healthy. Think about it.

But Stuck you are insightful and on the right track. Good grief though - enough about the EAs....I'd SEE a diff if my h had one though I would be hurt and feel threatened but half the R's on THIS SITE would be EA's by some definitions, even if they end up helping the M.s...gotta go make a living too though.

If it weren't for my R's with a few of the men here, I might have lost faith in you guys in general...know what I mean? And I did have a crush on a coworker about 15 years ago, and I worked it out. I went to a c, and a minister. I was SO attracted to this guy (he looked like Kevin Costner) AND H was ignoring me at home due to his residency and crazy hours...

so per my minister's suggestions, I started doing theater and getting "Safe" male attention playing passionate roles and channeling those feelings THERE....(hey, whatever works. And now OUR children are actors...for real...)

And no, "OM" and I never got physical and heck no I did not tell h (until about 4 years later and not all of it either. Why hurt h?) BUT If we had been "exposed"...I cannot see how that would have helped the M AT ALL.

I'd have been pissed that h punished me and judged, and besides, I WAS WORKING IT OUT ON MY OWN thank you very much....anyhow, must go to the job and at least fake work now.

Stay on track, you may be getting somewhere!!

j-

PS Stuck, don't think that I'm not getting how hard the forgiveness thing is. H left us for a JOB...all of us. And forgiveness was not modelled in my childhood so it has been a huge effort for me. I have a DB session this afternoon to prepare for h coming home b/c I know there will be major rough spots and "adjustments" for h and d's so...I do understand it ain't easy. But it can be done. I'm proof of that part of this. (( j ))

[robx]

stuck based on the recent descriptions of your wife's behavior,
what are you doing to pump up her self-esteem in a meaningful way that isn't fake but genuine.

Her self-esteem has nose dived, coupled with guilt for whatever actions & behaviors that she was a part of. I'm sure she's in a bit of pain, coupled with depression (if that's an issue), it's a heckuva funk to climb out of, judging herself, feeling judged by you & others, not feeling good enough, not feeling like anything they do will ever be enough.

I know I've contributed some advice in the past and it may not have always been widely accepted, in the end, whatever you do to get yourself out of this problem, you have to do it that makes you happy with your actions, that you are satisfied in the end that you did everything you could think of and throughout all of this you were a man: you exhibited strength, character, you made her feel safe & secure during the entire process, you didn't focus on her too much because she was already under alot of pressure.

Be honest & sincere in your actions, add pumping up her self-esteem as part of your to-do list as her husband, don't shower her with too much attention but when you do get a chance, compliment her on her appearance and do it out of the ordinary, at a time when she wouldn't expect it and be confident when you do compliment her: do it because you want to do it not because it will win her back.

Be strong, confident & secure in yourself, don't focus to much on her, be honest & sincere in your actions & words and maybe do more & talk less and stop analyzing every action she does and look at the fault in everything she does.

This isn't a great place to be for any LBS but make sure that going forward you start assuming the role of the confident, secure man that you are (and if you aren't confident & secure in yourself, start focusing on what needs to be done to do that). Whatever actions you take going forward, think a bit before doing it, ask yourself does this dig the hole deeper and add one more thing to the list of things I'm failing at or is this a good thing that i'm doing.

Still rootin' for ya!

[MrBond]

Sandi,

Thanks for the encouragement. The things you've told me about detaching and becoming her friend, etc. has gotten me where I am with her today. Things are encouraging and I think I need to just continue to "kill her with compassion/kindness" so that I'm not backsliding. All while GAL of course.

I think the thing about the EA is that I'm worried about it happening again with someone else. Because she's taken off her ring, I don't know if she's using that as an open invitation for guys to ask her out. I think everyone who has gone through an A sitch has the same fear and insecurity.

Taking the emphasis off of her is first for me. I have been complimenting her here and there and I know that she's got a big test coming up for her nursing career, so I went ahead and ordered her some practice test materials to help her with that. Like a friend would.

Sometimes I wish she were a friend with benefits though. Just kidding.