In Utter Agony...Long 1st Post

[25yearsmlc]

We will have to agree to disagree. True, exposing an affair to FAMILY AND FRIENDS (who's???) MAY hasten the demise of the A...sure that may be true.
Or it could force them to see it as "them against us", but let's say it does end the A sooner... So what? How does it serve the restoration of the marriage? That IS important to me and to most people here.

If that is NOT the goal, what is? Is it about being "right" and OR making the shamed spouse "wrong", or hurting their standing in the community or family, instead of forgiving and being happily married? B/C being happily married IS the goal of most people here. Does the exposure force a spouse to go home? Maybe. But in some cases, so would a scarlet letter....

My main point is If the m ends in divorce but MIGHT have gone differently if the LBSer had stepped back and not "shamed the wayward spouse" that matters and...that's my point. And I stand by it. Sometimes [i]exposing it hurts the chances of a long term reconciliation. But as far as SHAME is concerned, I can think OF NO time that is good for anyone, especially the kids, and the idea of restoring a healthy happy M...with shame...nope, I don't think so.
[/i]
No offense, but there's a stubborn need to be right here, or something going on here that is off point. I don't get it. I know it's close to home for you and I'm sorry if it hit a chord. I really am. But isn't it possible that you could be overstating something here? Or not be right about this? Would it be so terrible to not be correct and to have to try something different? I'm a bit flummoxed. How can you argue that shaming a spouse is EVER a good thing? "If handled correctly"??? What??

You may be making a very different point, but I'm quoting YOUR WORDS in response to mine in my first post on this topic. In reply to my stating that "shaming a spouse into coming home won't lead to true marital restoration in the long run..." you chose to chime in and say "If handled correctly it can be an effective tool..." so I'm left wondering, "shame -- as a tool"... for what?

(EO, sorry, but I think this is only a partial hijack ?? and it does discuss a point that Puppy makes often that should be discussed out loud. But sorry if this isn't helpful to you, although it may well be.)

And I still don't get it. I understand it, PT. I just don't get your long term goal. And I disagree with your approach about it, IF your goal is to restore a marriage. And it DOES matter if that is the goal. I don't know anyone with a healthy restored marriage who was shamed into it. The word SHAME is the word[i] I chose, and you disagreed with my statement. [/i]

Implicitly, that means you were referring to shame when you said "it can be an effective tool if used correctly" and yeah, that bugs me a lot.

Tell me how shame helps restore a lasting, happy, marriage. Tell me about all the books and experts who recommend it, or just tell us your own opinion. B/C it sure is NOT DBing, Nor is it MWD's position and I've checked on that a lot here, in the DB books and with my db coach. I don't know why you cling to this so much. There's no flexibility in your stance and it sounds really extreme to me. And not loving. But judgmental, condescending, smug, although I'm not saying you are those traits, that statement is how it came across to me, and is NOT in line with DB coaching. So why do you push it here?

I've seen some marriages survive infidelity, and they didn't tell the world about it, let alone their children, and no one used "shame" as a tool. (That's probably why DB pushes the whole series on forgiveness and not snooping and letting go and "keeping the road home paved and smooth" ---that ALL comes from DBing and MWD. I didn't make it up.)

If you think shame is an "effective tool"....then yeah, we do disagree.
Peace.
j-