Exposure, done correctly, should never be about shame or condemnation. It should be a loving but firm gesture, that says "I love myself too much to allow this to continue, and I love YOU too much to let you continue in this without a fight."
Done properly, it is basically a marital intervention, and it can be quite effective. It can, however, then make the "repair" work that much more difficult.
Puppy
Not to quibble PT, but how does Christlike forgiveness "make the repair work that much more difficult"? More difficult than what? What are the alternatives to real forgiveness, that actually result in the full restoration of the M?? Just living "under the same roof" "marriages" if people want to call it that, is not really the goal. I stand by my statement, (which I did not "invent"), that true & full restoration of a M cannot happen without losing shame as a weapon, and embracing the loving forgiveness that we are meant to embrace.
(hey PT, I may have misunderstood you, so I'm just asking for clarification. But anyhow, what did you mean?)
(( J- ))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I meant that the wayward spouse may interpret the intervention as spiteful and resent it, and you then have more healing to do that if you had stayed the "nice guy."
Again, I am making a distinction between "shame" and "firm, loving intervention." Christ forgave the adulteress, but He also told her to "go and sin no more." I think as Christian, betrayed spouses, we have to balance forgiveness and compassion, with holding up a holy standard and also taking care of ourselves.
These are difficult questions, and I don't profess to have the only answers to them. For example, we're also called to be good stewards of our family's finances; should we pay for a wayward spouse's cellphone that they use to conduct an affair? Or do we "throw over the moneychangers' tables," so to speak?
I think I take your point. Just read a book called "Blue Like Jazz" you may find helpful. Very intellectually provacative and got me thinking a lot about my faith, in a good way.
Anyhow, I will process. But I think we agree that shaming them into coming home, will not result in the restoration of a marriage that either of us would consider a Godly or happy marriage. Point is, who wants to come home to a judgmental or smug LBSer with their arms crossed? Not many. Of the ones who do meekly come back crawling, I don't see that as really "choosing" to work on the M, or as very likely to last. And I think it ultimately leads to deep resentment on the part of the "wayward spouse" plus it CAN lead to the LBSer not taking any ownership of the problems in the M. Both of which are not too great.
The book I just mentioned has gotten me to recall that my scripture quoting brother, almost always quotes scripture to win an argument, not welcome someone into God's arms. That troubles me a lot and I realized how much that relates to what we SOMETIMES do here. Hence my interest in the topic and realizations I discussed with a good DB coach. (Not directing the comments at you specifically, fyi) Anyhow, have a good night all.
(( j ))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
If the M was ending b/c of the A, and there are children, someone has to do some splainin'. Preferably the WAS. If not, then the LBSer may be forced to explain that OP is involved and that the WAS chose them...depends also on the age of those kids.
IF, however, the LBSer wants to save the M, I cannot see any good coming of revealing such a private, personal matter to anyone. Surely Not exposed by the LBSer. I really truly cannot see the value of it. I think it's punitive, at least in effect if not in intent, and serves no good purpose in the long run,, even if it "Succeeds" in getting the WAS to shamefully crawl back into the home. I don't see it as a lasting or effective "tool" and it is also very dangerous. High risk of judgmentalism backfiring, and the more people that know, the deeper the shame and the more internal damage done to the WAS who will eventually externalize that pain, or leave again, or do self harm or be passive aggressive or something UNhealthy. IMO.
I recall some of your sitch and I know this may be hitting a chord and I did not intend to do so. But yes this is my present take on this. Always subject to growth or change and I don't pretend to have all the answers by any means. But lately I've done a lot of soul searching and read that book and for me, It resonated. It articulated what I've felt vaguely for awhile now. There are some who misuse religion or God as a weapon, and that makes me sad. As I said though, I don't have all the answers. Would not want to be in those shoes. But I have been a sibling or friend to numerous "A"s and divorces, (not all end in Div) and have seen the different results and for sure the fewer people who knew, the easier it was to "keep the road home paved and smooth" so the WAS could get back and stay, and not feel the sword of Damacles was forever over their head.
I cannot quote scripture very well, but I recall Corinthians, "love does not keep a record of wrongs" was in my vows too. Isn't "exposure" a form of doing that, only in public? Just food for thought.
(( j ))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Thanks for explaining; that helps me understand your stance. Obviously I disagree, but that's okay too! And I don't want to hijack EO's thread any further, so we'll leave it at that.
I will chime in to say that exposure is something you have to be very cautious with because there are certainly others who can hurt because of it. Causing damage to others, no matter your faith, is never good. I am not of the Christian faith, but I believe that the only one who can pass that judgment is???????
I think the point that needs to be brought back around is the original point of not acting out of anger and using shame as a weapon. It is not responsible. The shame things is theirs to own, not yours to give. No matter who you are I can almost guarantee that their is an extent of shame on the WAS part. That is why they can hardly look you in the face.
Being left behind NEVER is an excuse to be hurtful or go out of our way to "expose" and harm others. It is not OUR job, it is theirs. The problem as I see it is someone will hear it and get hurt, I have a child in my home right now who has not even spent more than 5 minutes with her mother for almost a year now because she "learned" of the affair. Hmmmmmm.....
PT, I misread your question. I think. I thought you asked about the LBSer exposing their spouse's affair to THEIR families....but You asked about exposing to OM/s family, as opposed to the WAS's? Is that correct?
I would have to think about that. (But I would not ever involve the OM's kids)...but I probably would tell their spouses, e.g., if MY h was seeing OW, and OW was a married woman, at the very least I'd confront HER and let her tell her h say within 24 hours to spare her h the humiliation of having a stranger tell him. But if she refused, I'd probably tell OW's h myself. There are exceptions but yes, that's my take on THAT.
As for exposing my h's A, to MY/OUR family while trying to stay M to my h if he had the A, that is the hypothetical I thought you were asking. That's where I'd keep it private. Does that make more sense? Sorry for the misunderstanding and definitely sorry if this hits a chord...yikes...
j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
