What CG says and Kev look up "Charlyne Steinkamp" she has a web site which I think may help you. Get the outline done for the C so you are prepared for your appointment.
Me-44 WAW-42 (ILYBNILWY) S-16 S-14 M-10/17/1992 T23 Met OM 10/10/08; Bomb 12/27/08; Moved in with OM 01/27/09 Me stronger and happier everyday!
I am going to tell you a real life experience and I want you to respond with what you take away from it.
Several years ago my MIL rescued a dog that was very badly abused which was a wonderful thing to do. My MIL is a dog lover to the extreme and for whatever reason this dog was not afraid of my MIL but very sketchy, skidish and nervous around anybody else. The rescue society suggested that we all give the dog space and basically ignore her when we were at my MIL's house and eventually the dog would be more comfortable and maybe start to come to us.
Fine. We did just that. One day me and my H and my MIL and FIL were in the living room just visiting and the dog was hiding in the kitchen. As instructed, we were ignoring her and just giving her space and all of a sudden she ran out of the kitchen, in to the living room and bit me. Now it wasnt a full blown attack or anything and to this day we cant figure out what triggered this. So, what did my MIL do? She took the dog back in the kitchen, coddled and kissed her and gave her a treat. Essentially she rewarded very bad (and dangerous) behavior to make the dog more comfortable.
A few weeks later we were all at my MIL's house again in the living room. The dog was hanging out in the front hallway. All of a sudden we heard a horrible noise. The dog had jumped through the screen door, ran in the street and bit the leg of a little boy that was riding by on his bike. This time though not only was it a bad bite but the kid was knocked off his bike and scraped up from head to toe.
And once again my MIL brought the dog inside to the kitchen, hugged her, coddled her, loved her and gave her a treat to "calm her down".
In the month following that she bit my MIL's sister, my sister and my MIL's little niece. And each time the dog bit somebody was showered with attention and love and treats by my MIL.
Eventually this became a huge problem. My in laws were lucky they didnt get sued but nobody wanted to come to their house anymore because of this dog. It was just too stressful to be around a dog that was so unbalanced and quite frankly dangerous.
After a while the dog did get some training and stopped biting people but it took TONS of work and dedication. And it had to start with my MIL and her NOT coddling, loving and offering treats to the dog when she did bite. Rewarding bad (dangerous) behavior only enables it even though she loved the dog and wanted the dog to feel safe and happy she learned that going to the extreme to make the dog feel safe/happy was really only making things worse.
It was my MIL that had to change the dynamic or this would have continued. And who wants to be around a dog that will bite and attack out of the blue for no reason? I was actually scared to go to my in-laws house for a while because this dog was so nuts. Once my MIL obtained the training tools to handle this dog and how to rectify her bad behavior things changed and this dog became far more pleasant to be around. Essentially she had to teach the dog that when she was bad (biting, showing teeth, attacking) that she would not get love and attention and treats. And that was not easy for my MIL because she loves this dog so darn much. Eventually though, and it took a long time, the dog improved because she realized that nobody was going to take her abuse (biting).
Do you see anything in this that relates to you and your current situation?
Kev, you are again confusing your vows & religious views with an excuse for being stuck in your terror of change, and DOING nothing differently. (That is why I recommended the book "Blue Like Jazz"). I have a whole long post on the misuse of faith and God and all that, but I just remembered...I already posted that to YOU. And it got us both nowhere.
WHY are you choosing this spin on the vows & pretending it's all about your religious views? B/C if YOU ARE around for her at her beck and call, then when she needs a favor, you might get the call and of course you will be there, waiting of course, and never GAL of your own, b/c that's hard.for YOU (as if it was easy for anyone here) so Kev, you better be there for THAT minute in which she MIGHT give you a scrap of her attention. That's enough right? Oh and MAYBE YOU'LL GET A HUG? What's that? No hug? (SIGH) Oh, well, maybe next year for that...
IN the meantime Kev you keep on being there 'REGARDLESS OF CIRCUMSTANCE" so if she needs you to go to the store and buy some more condoms for OM, why not? If she wants you to book a flight for her and OM to take yet another romantic trip, why shouldn't you? And change the sheets after they've been in bed b/c you know how she likes clean sheets...After all, YOU "LOVE" HER....and isn't that what love means? and YOU take those vows seriously and are "always going to be married to her no matter what"... [u]B/C A scrap of attention from her, even negative, maybe a "thank you" every now and then, is ENOUGH FOR YOU and it is MUCH more appealing to you, than having to [/b] change OR RESPECT yourself[/u]. It must be. Gee that Sure sounds exactly like what God had in mind for you, for "marriage" and for all of us, and it's sure healthy..[/u]
[b]Well Kev, you may shake your head now, but it IS apparently enough for you. You have demonstrated that, you have PROVED that to all of us, and your w, and your daughters And that is what the c needs to hear you say b/c as sad and sick as that must be to see in writing,[u] it is the truth with you. And it is very sad and very sick. And you are blind to that, b/c your neediness is so vast and the emptiness in you so deep...
Aside from how UNattractive that is in a man, it's not healthy for your kids or you. What a miserable choice you are making with your life.
j-
PS if faithfulH contacts you, since he might be in the Dallas area right now, that'd be a real blessing for you .
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Good story. Good luck on it too. And as for the goals, I think Kev needs very very specific items to check off so he will be able to know if he's on track. Being a good dad could include, "attending every conference/game/event of theirs unless work mandates otherwise. Planning at least one weekly event that is child centered which THEY enjoy and which HE partakes of, making sure they DO their homework by sitting with them and helping them stay on track with school, and having a "pop quiz" weekly with a little prize. Having one night a week being "kid's night" where they can rent which ever KIDS movie they want and have popcorn and put a blanket on the floor or whatever it is, but he needs specific examples of what it all means. And kev, you never ever told any of us a thing about your childhood....why? j-
PS God bless you CG
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I get the story. I am enabling her to keep on acting the way she is. I let her do what she wants and then I reward her by being there for her for whatever she needs or wants which just further enables her to treat me this way.
I did pick her up and take her and D7 from the store to the house and I helped her make stuff so she could take it to her best friends house for the afternoon since she was hurting from a pinched nerve. MIL brought D11 to the house and I stayed in while she dropped her off.
W's birthday is this week and I stupidly asked if we were going to do anything for her birthday since she had wanted us to do something together for mothers day and she wants to get together for fathers day. She said no for the birthday. She said her and her family and the kids are going out to dinner on Wednesday and then she has a happy hour being thrown for her on Friday. She suggested I take the kids to a balloon festival on Friday night of which she said she would not be joining us even though she likes those because of her birthday happy hour. I said ok. I did buy her a birthday present that she wanted and I am supposed to come over tomorrow for a sea food boil when I pick up the kids to bring them back for the week with me.
I'm beginning to think this stuff is more pity for me than her wanting to spend time with me which is not good. And the rest is just using me when she has nobody else to turn to.
And I am enabling it. I guess I miss her so much I just make myself willing to jump at it to be with her.
She always thanks me for taking the kids on her time and I tell her she doesn't have to thank me for wanting to spend time with my kids. I tell her my kids are more important to me than anything else I would be doing. And she thanks me anyways. I tell her don't thank me for spending time with my kids.
I guess I do need to break down the goals further. I will have to give that more thought. Anyways, me and D11 are spending the afternoon together since W and D7 are at her best friends house for the afternoon and D11 didn't want to go. So I am going to look for something for us to do. I just thought I would respond to this real quick.
Kevin
Me 36, W 37 M: 08/02/97 D13, D9 1st Bomb 02/08 Reconciled 04/08 2nd Bomb: 09/08 W filed for D 02/04/09 Separated 03/09 D dismissed 06/09/09 Still separated...
By the way, I haven't been having any R talk with W. Whats the point.
Kevin
Me 36, W 37 M: 08/02/97 D13, D9 1st Bomb 02/08 Reconciled 04/08 2nd Bomb: 09/08 W filed for D 02/04/09 Separated 03/09 D dismissed 06/09/09 Still separated...
I think what I am confused on is I try to do stuff with friends or go to a poker tournament or whatever, and you all tell me that is filler time and not getting a life.
What is getting a life then? I'm in an apartment so there is not a lot I can do such as any kind of remodeling and I really want to make friends and be with people.
I guess I am just a little confused.
Kevin
Me 36, W 37 M: 08/02/97 D13, D9 1st Bomb 02/08 Reconciled 04/08 2nd Bomb: 09/08 W filed for D 02/04/09 Separated 03/09 D dismissed 06/09/09 Still separated...
I get the story. I am enabling her to keep on acting the way she is. I let her do what she wants and then I reward her by being there for her for whatever she needs or wants which just further enables her to treat me this way.
Exactly right. So, why do you keep doing the same thing and thinking you will yield a different result?
I did pick her up and take her and D7 from the store to the house and I helped her make stuff so she could take it to her best friends house for the afternoon since she was hurting from a pinched nerve. MIL brought D11 to the house and I stayed in while she dropped her off.
Again, you are the whipping boy (in this case the taxi driver and cook). Why in the world would you help your W make stuff to take to a friends house when you were not included in the party? Boo hoo she has a pinched nerve. Again, you dont get the perks of a helpful spouse when you are not feeling well when you dont want to be married. But you keep giving them to her. Why didnt she call her mom, a friend, her boyfriend(s) or a taxi for a ride? She didnt because she knows you will always be her errand boy. Honestly, why you would want to help somebody out that has so little respect for you and your time is beyond me.
W's birthday is this week and I stupidly asked if we were going to do anything for her birthday since she had wanted us to do something together for mothers day and she wants to get together for fathers day. She said no for the birthday. She said her and her family and the kids are going out to dinner on Wednesday and then she has a happy hour being thrown for her on Friday. She suggested I take the kids to a balloon festival on Friday night of which she said she would not be joining us even though she likes those because of her birthday happy hour. I said ok. I did buy her a birthday present that she wanted and I am supposed to come over tomorrow for a sea food boil when I pick up the kids to bring them back for the week with me.
Again, your W is making it quite clear that her interest in spending time with you is regulated to family type events that really revolve around the children mothers day, fathers day) and nothing more. Her b-day is hers and clearly she doesnt want you involved in the celebration as it has nothing to do with co-parenting and went as far as to tell you two sets of plans she has that do not include you. How do you respond to that? You buy her a gift. Does that make sense? She even suggested you take the girls somewhere during her b-day happy hour to be sure you wouldnt be around. Buying her a gift is pursuit and it makes you look pathetic.
I'm beginning to think this stuff is more pity for me than her wanting to spend time with me which is not good. And the rest is just using me when she has nobody else to turn to.
Yes, of course it is. When she needs you (rides, cleaning, money, babysitter, chores, errands) she calls you and of course she is nice to you because she needs something! The only time she includes you is when it has to do with the kids. It should be perfectly clear to you by now the only interest she has in you right now is that of being a co-parent.
And I am enabling it. I guess I miss her so much I just make myself willing to jump at it to be with her.
Yes, you are enabling it. Why do you miss somebody that treats you like crap? Why do you miss somebody that runs around with other men? Why do you miss somebody who only calls you when she needs something? You need to find out why you think so little of yourself that you are more than willing to be stomped on and used this way. I am not even sure you miss her, you just dont want to be alone and start your own life.
As far as not having R talks you are right, there is no point because she is not intersted in talking or hearing about the R or how you feel about it. It bugs her and annoys her and shows her how pathetic and needy you are. I am glad you finally grasped that concept.
As far as GAL what you are doing (poker and such) are fillers. They are social activities which are important but they arent helping you build a new Kevin. Building a new Kevin would entail you obtaining the tools to stand on your own, stop being clingy and needy, learn to set and execute personal goals and all the other things we have asked you to try and do for some time now. Jumping at the chance to spend time with somebody who treats you like your W does isnt building a better you now is it? Poker and meetup groups are fun but they wont give you the tools you need to become a strong man.
"amen" to ALL that CG said. But Kev, so now you see how you enable this behavior. IT has of course been shown to you 30 times before, and you said you understood, you say you "get it"...so I'm left wondering what, IF ANYTHING, you will do about it...
I don't have a problem with your activities like playing poker, (assuming you aren't betting your rent money) if other people are involved and you actually like it, as opposed to trying to pass the time as if you are in a waiting room waiting for the doctor (wife) to come in....OR any other fun activity you actually like doing and are not doing simply in lieu of drinking.
But the BIG picture is that you need to alter your view of life and yourself, and take charge of your life and I think some of us felt that poker was a bit superficial if that's what you call GAL.... It's not a bad thing to do, but it's a bandaid for a sucking chest wound.
GAL means the c you will finally start seeing, and probably some type of schooling or NEW thing, I'm not sure but I know it will involve some other LIFE CHANGING event that helps you take charge of your life, and be a new man, and not say things like "I can't be happy without my w"....(do you cry or whimper at the poker games? Oh, wait, you have some fun? Then stop saying you can't be happy without her...it's weak and not even true.)
...ALL the rest of stuff you are still doing, like buying her a b-day present and knowing you are not going to be part of her birthday (@#$%^&*(!!!) and constantly standing around, figuratively, and literally, waiting to be invited (OR HUGGED!--unbelievable!), and such, has been covered ad nauseum, so I won't bother repeating myself AGAIN. Geez.
But I don't think she invites you ONLY to use you. I think she also pities you. So there's that. If this comforts you, so be it.
She is actually being pretty darn CLEAR about the boudaries- mother's day and father's day stuff being family things you are allowed to attend, and some women would not want their ex's to come for mother's day, but she said yes so good for her. BUT no, you are not invited to her birthday as she wants to divorce you and b/c you are NOT part of her private or personal life as a woman anymore, you are ONLY a co-parent....(and then sometimes the errand boy too.)
in fairness to her, It's hard to resist dumping on someone who will take it like you do AND besides, maybe she feels owed by you b/c of all the trouble she feels you caused her. This is her payback maybe. SO in her mind you deserve to be a whipping boy, and on the other hand, she feels like she's being nice to you by taking pity on you for those other events and truth be told, she could be worse.
Why must you keep saying "don't thank me" when you take the girls on her time without any notice? Just accept the thanks, and stop arguing about it. You made your point, and now you sound goofy and obnoxious about saying how "important your kids are that of course you'll drop everything to be with them"--like drop what? YOU HAVE NO OTHER LIFE AND YOU MAKE THAT CLEAR TO HER EVERY CHANCE YOU GET. Accept the thanks. Besides, in reality you are giving her a shot by saying YOU'D drop everything for the kids but you imply that she won't....and you seem to envy or resent that she has friends and activities planned. If you like target shooting, why don't you do it too? You oohed and ahhed that she is doing that. You seem amazed that she could come up with something TO DO that does not revolve around the same old thing. You can do it too you know. Did you do that as a kid? Or go fishing? Anything? I bet you did SOMETHING as a child that was fun. And you do have a brother too. And a sil and a niece and a father. Call them sometime to say hi and reach out to THEM.
Anyhow Father's day is coming (call YOUR dad too) so just try to enjoy the fact that you helped make two great people in this world. Focus ONLY ON THAT for the day please. There are a lot of people who wish they had those gifts. And give your w'sb-day gift to someone else, like your girls, or better yet buy yourself something, like one of the umpteen books we have all suggested you read and read one of them.
(( j ))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I think what I am confused on is I try to do stuff with friends or go to a poker tournament or whatever, and you all tell me that is filler time and not getting a life.
What is getting a life then? I'm in an apartment so there is not a lot I can do such as any kind of remodeling and I really want to make friends and be with people.
I guess I am just a little confused.
Kevin
Hi Kev, a good friend of yours (whether you realize it yet or not) sent me your way. I am going to start with defining this getting a life term that is being thrown at you here.
Getting a life is not simply about going out and doing stuff to kill time. It is about defining the way that you want to live your life and making effective changes in your attitude to match up with those goals. You see everyone keeps telling you it is filler because even though you go out and do things, when you come back you are still in the same old rut.
It is a filler because you seem to be using it to deflect from time normally spent agonizing over your current situation.
So here is what I want you to do. Sit down and figure out what you want your life to be. I know it is a bit morbid, but I want you to think of it as if your W had passed away. Once you grieved, how would you perceive your life to be? What kind of things would you do differently? What kind of role model would you be for your kids? How would you change things that you do today?
Quote:
And I am enabling it. I guess I miss her so much I just make myself willing to jump at it to be with her.
Your going to have to forgive my forwardness here, but quit with the bullshitt excuses for why you behave the way you do and instead simply acknowledge your weakness and work on it. You do the carp that you do for her because you have convinced yourself that you are not complete without her. That is a whole lot of power to give one woman, especially with all the crap she has done to you.
AND......
WTF is with these titles. "divorce looming" barf.... lose that negative crap and figure out something positive to title your threads.
Kev, I think you need a bit of a perspective change. I think you need to stop assimilating your wife into your life while she is truly not part of it. I see this as harmful to any chance you have of improving your situation. I know you will hate to hear this, but if you really want a chance of working on yourself and your marriage, you need to completely let her go. Let her feel all the feelings of what divorce is gonna be like and let her view you from a far improving your life.
Some rules for you.....
1. Stop doing ANYTHING for her that you don't truly want to do.
2. Keep your time with your kids on a strict schedule and do not bend on that.
3. Schedule yourself 15-30 minutes each day to grieve the relationship, utilize that time to get your crying or anger out, and then let it go for the rest of the day. Quit allowing this to consume your days.
4. Start actively listening to the things you are being told here. You seem to be a yes man telling folks you understand what they are saying and then in the next breath ask the same exact type of question.
5. Get a life, the right way. Not just doing for the sake of doing. Do because it is something you like to do. Something you would do if you were a single guy. Figure out where your passion lies and pursue it.
That's gonna about do it for today. I think you really need to take a long hard look at how much power and control you are allowing her to have in your life. I think you need to take a long hard look at how you are unable to focus on you for any amount of time because she pops in your mind. Oh, and not being able to not think about her for 100 minutes???? That is a problem dude.
