Oh, AK, have you checked out K4's today? Guess we're all Praying that his c gets somewhere...please! Seriously...
25- you know, the irony is that I see myself in him, not to the same extent, but I too have to look at who I was before, during and now...I struggle with the same demons I always have and you really hit the nail on the head for him and for many of us. It is too easy to b*tch about our jacked up spouses, we are/were their counterparts soooooo????
You are truly a saintly woman to give what you do. Some people do take time but I think ultimately it sinks in.
If you can tolerate my thread, interesting stuff happening. Otherwise, I just really enjoy reading what you post for others and taking it in. Every time, I get something out of it.
could you take a look at my current sitch when you have a chance? I'd like your experienced opinion.
Thanks.
Stuck
Where is your thread? I found > 100 with your name on it soooo help me out here buddy!
okay, on that note= good night. (( j ))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I just hunted for Stucks thread and saw yours and you are more prolific than I am!
Too late to post intelligently and am not all caught up with yours. Last post of yours I read in full, said h was with rock star in Europe and got a shout out from the stage....ahem, yay... How old is he? (Sorry that was mean...anyhow, I'm tired so wth? And not caught up anyhow!).
I did want to say one thing that you may have already worked out. It's regarding other's thoughts and friends and what they think and the whole FB thing. First off, you have no control over what they think or what he says or if he thinks the sun is purple. ALL of them may believe you are evil and the world is flat....LOSE THAT WORRY b/c you cannot change or affect it...Serenity prayer time...
BUT here's some reality anyhow... When I KNOW a man is married and he does not mention his w or kids, or he "acts single" or acts as if he is half his age, I am NEVER impressed. I am always moved to either pity him (most common reaction) or am turned off if I know he's hurt someone in addition to himself. Peope who meet your h will know either he is married and has kids that HE LEFT OR he is acting half his age (both scenarios are sad) OR they believe you are evil and ran away from him and his kids are....hidden??? In Iraq?? WHAT? IOW, being without his kids pretty much demonstrates to anyone curious, that HE left....b/c if it were YOU leaving, then he'd have the kids ON HIS OWN a whole lot more than he does AND he would not be doing the whole poser routine. People in the know, know. The others do not matter. AT all.
I don't think I'm that unusual. In fact after my HS reunion last fall we had a few semi-famous celebs pretending to be super fun and super happy and blah blah blah and it came off as so sad and pathetic. Truly. I heard NO ONE say "gee how great is THAT life?" No one. At this stage of our lives, with families, it's all about balance and finding some peace and growth. By 45 it is all about being happy and content with where you are in life AND with whom you've raised and whether you've "contained" the damage of your first Div or marital problems or have a horrible med sitch or some other tragic sitch...or if you are lucky enough to still be in the first one. No one is proud to say "this is my wife (#4)"....even if she is 22 y/o. Frankly, even Donald Trump looks a little silly when he's with a woman his daughter's age, don't you think? I mean really, I see him as a man who is very afraid of aging and wouldn't it be nicer to have the Paul Newman Joanne Woodward deal with two people comfortably growing old and still being interested in each other?
With the part of your h that is sensitive and kind, and once loved you less seifishly...existing at some level, you can always hope it resurfaces. It may in time. But his track record with repeating the same behavior as his father is right out of the text books. Has he ever caught up to his bio dad and really "chatted" with him?
Growing up we had a wonderful neighbor named Vicki who dated a lot of guys as she was popular and kind hearted. She finally married the "fun guy", who always promised her the world, (I had a crush on him and never forgot him) and it was especially touching b/c HIS father had deserted him as a kid, leaving him alone with just his mom...so he and Vicki dated and then married....
SO they have a cool little boy. Then V is pregnant with 2nd child and Fun guy moves out to CAL to start new job and settle in and wait for her to join him with s1 and new baby. 2 months pass and new job is challenging...but exciting...but only 3 days before she moves 8 months pregnant and with everything packed, fun guy H calls her to say "I don't deserve you, so don't come out here" and he div her BY MAIL....He NEVER contacts her again. They div by mail and ONE time she gets a call from his mother, crying and drunk, asking about the boys...25 years have passed and no one ever heard from him but for that one call from his mom, who let out that he had "another baby" and presumably another w...and whole family??
Vicki remarried a few years after and has remained in that M and is quite happy with her h. It's been nearly 20 years now I guess. But last year her older son married and at the wedding reception the FIRST toast was made by him to HIS mother, my friend, with the bride's full approval. Vicki and everyone cried, knowing what she had accomplished with such grace and dignity and NO visible self pity...her parents helped her at times but she made it on her own basically, raising two baby boys 25 years ago...and getting a check from xh thru the court system so she could not find him...which she eventually stopped trying to do...but never got answers or closure yet manages to not obsess about it. She seems content and strong. She raised 2 great boys who are now great MEN and they love her deeply and the older one is making a great h so far and I am confident HE will stand by his wife...Vicki broke that mold as she had HER father in their lives as well. But her idiot xh missed out on a big patch of heaven on earth. What a fool he was. And who can explain the pattern repeat? How weird is that? Vicki never said a mean thing about him in front of the kids and I don't recall her ever bringing him up as a topic. It held HER back if you kwim. So I'd say "Hey have you heard ANTHING?" and I think I asked her every other time I saw her for 10 years and just verified it again at Christmas b/c it fascinates me....morbid I know...but still. I recall that at first she tried to find him b/c at first she thought he was in trouble. He never wrote her a letter or called or gave ANY explanation and NEVER met his 2nd son...the boys are very close to each other. I often wonder what will happen on fun guy's death bed, or if his new wife even knows about his first family. His own mother knew of them, and it has to have killed her to know she had 2 grandsons she did not make the effort to know --ALL WHILE knowing her own son (fun guy) had done exactly what her ex h had done to her! WTF?? Guess your h's childhood story does not make me feel better about the sitch, but worse. Plus you say he has "mother" issues...great....he'll show her!! (Oh, and you...) not to be too negative but am tired as earlier admitted...
My h's bf said it's one thing to learn what "not to do" from our parents but that is NOT the same as knowing what TO DO....b/c in times of crisis we'll revert to what we know. That's why so many abusers go on to abuse. They need a positive role model to replace the bad one, or there's a vacuum. H's bf, "D", is The BEST H and Dad I know. He's a blessing to us and has always been so. BUT "D" himself, had a lousy father for a role model. D's dad cheated and got a woman pregnant so he div D's mom and married 2 more times and after his 3rd w left him, D's dad took his own life, on Thanksgiving. This was a long time ago but D always knew that though he loved his dad, his dad was not the man D wanted to be. So how did D manage to become who he is? He had a very poor role model BUT he loved HIS fil and had HIM as a role model. They became very close and that is the "Secret" as far as I am concerned. I have about 4 women in my life with healthy M's to men I can relate to so that really helps as MY own parents' M did not. I recall yours did not either. WE need role models big time as artists, mothers with career goals AND h's with demanding careers. In your sitch right now, you need some Single role model MOTHERS too. At least for now. It really helps. (Oh, D has a strong faith too). You may find a book called "Blue Like Jazz" helpful on that issue b/c of how you touched on it somewhere here....we can discuss later IF you want.
Anyhow, D's advice about getting a positive role model so we can know what TO DO, rather than simply knowing what not to do, as in saying "I won't do "x" --is so important. (Makes me wonder a lot about Kev4 you know? You say you relate to him, but we all do in one sense. But He is an extreme version of all of us with our fears, except seemingly without ANY tools or worksable insights and that is very unusual.
I've been posting here a good 3 years & I can count on one hand how many people have taken as long to wake up OR maybe they just drop off the boards and move on or get a div, or what? But he comes back and yet...why? I mean, it's frustrating....we'll see. I've wondered about a learning disability but don't know how to ask him b/c that would explain a lot and I'd change the 2 x 4s, but don't know how to ask him that without offending, so I guess I won't...but seriously....seriously... (the kids for the summer and no child care plan?? That kind of freaked me out. Who does that? Where was HE raised and how? You know? )
I'm am hoping maybe someone like faithfulH can reach out to him since he's now in that area of the country, and I think a MAN has to reach out to K4 there....for a ton of reasons. FaithfulH had a happy ending in his sitch as well, but yes, it was very very diff....from kev's Maybe we can go see some "rock star" sometime and get a shout out or better yet, we'll use our acting skills and be fake groupies...That would only be fun if I get to mock the real ones!
I'm doing some stand up comedy soon again. THe most work I ever got off one gig was all about MLCers and WAS's....go figure. (No, I don't mix the L work with the entertainment work, though God knows there is overlap...) Well in a way I DO mix them together, but not to anyone's knowledge...
Geez I have to go to sleep and still owe one more post. Okay...
TTYS, You are really doing well, even though it still hurts a lot. You are healing. So in a way it's like the childbirth experience no one told ME about, which was, "Hey, even though this REALLY hurts far FAR more than you thought it would or could, you are doing well, and something very good WILL come of this..."
(( j ))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
25- well, we've hijacked this thread but I think your words benefit everyone anyway.
Frankly, H wears both hats fairly well. Now back in town, he spends so much time with the kids and seems pained by and pre-occupied with communicating and taking some action in our sitch.
He is 36, sort of prime time and things ARE happening but the guilt and reality of all our debt and responsibilities is like a thorn in his side. If he up and disappeared, it might be easier emotionally in some ways, YKWIM? It is a yoyo for me and for the kids and I don't see that changing much as that is his choice in lifestyle (and is what I was feeling in M too). I'm pretty sure that he is honest that he is separated and has kids, just tells people, at best, it is a mutual separation, at worst, I'm a psycho-bitch...women don't really care. He dotes on his children, that is so endearing...
Neither of us had decent modeling and really the gravity of the difficulties we've faced over the years and both lacking healthy coping skills has left us worn out and for him, it is time to put it all behind him and move forward. In the meantime, he is beginning to step up and deal but it is with the inertia to move forward and away from me, not do it for the M.
The Paul Newman thing makes me sad. I could see him being that guy...and I'm the rehearsal wife. It is tough to imagine him going the distance with another woman. It could go many different ways.
25, it is pretty hellish to have people I consider MY friends who are just shocked and appalled on my behalf, actually emailing him or contacting him for hook-ups, gushing when he talks about who he's working with etc. I know I'm bigger than that, but it is pretty isolating and can make a woman feel pretty self-conscious and slightly paranoid. It is a bit of a social hell that makes me want to move out of the state sometimes.
Anyway, we have so much contact and there is so much left un-healed between us. I almost wish we could do Retrouvaille. He probably has enough guilt to agree to it but I don't know if it can work that way. Maybe you can meet me at my thread sometime.
OMG we totally hijacked! SORRY it was late and I was tired and got off track and blah blah blah SORRY!!
yikes....I'll go find these guys on there...spots...
(( j ))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
So Et Op, how are things going for you now? I know you said that the MC was not helping, and maybe you should stop going. NO, do not stop yet. You have a timeline that is VERY unrealistic. Seriously. Maybe the c is not a good one, I don't know. But I do know a few weeks, OR LESS, is an unrealistic timeline to use. You seem so panicky that you're being unrealistic and hyper about changes in the M and temperature taking of the R, etc. STOP IT. Take a breath.
You have so much more control in this sitch than you realize. Yes you do. You can learn to control your outbursts, your obsessing, your 'blurting out' very harmful things and your fear based decision making and second guessing. You already know it's unattractive and painful for you, so why continue it? M's are made up of 2 people (and God, but that is for another day...) so if one of those people change then by definition the M does as well.
I'm still not clear about the whole "A" with the t thing either. Was it proved or admitted or what?
BUT Lastly, I want to address something I think I saw on this thread. Might have been elsewhere but it's important enough I THINK, to post here and maybe elsewhere too...
It's the weapon of SHAME. Most LBSers at some point try to guilt or shame the WAS into coming home. We say "How could you?" and "This is immoral, wrong, selfish, a SIN, against God's will, etc." (I know I did.) I have given a lot of thought to this. Here's my opinion and it is based on personal experience)
SHAME and why it sucks for all[/u][/color] Shaming a WAS into "trying again" ALWAYS FAILS IN THE LONG RUN, EVEN IF THE WAS COMES HOME[/b]... yes I mean that literally. No couples reconcile for good, and by reconcile, I mean RECONCILE, (I don't mean move back in the home b/c true restoration of the M and reconciliation mean a lot more than living under the same roof...You will find people here who urge you to condemn, EXPOSE the SINNER, and then they use GOD as a weapon for that. I say Shame on THEM. How on earth will your h ever come home (in the true meaning of the word) to a woman with her arms crossed in judgment who says "You left ME? I should have left YOU years ago" which YOU did say in an earlier post..[/u]. Or, "Yeah I "FORGIVE" you BUT...."
Again I speak from experience on this, okay? Been there, done that. I Felt "right" to be the way I was, but not happily married. Instead we need to welcome the WAS home with a model of forgiveness that says "Yes we can start fresh and no I won't throw this in your face ever and now, moving on....and btw, I was at fault PLENTY and am working on MY stuff too and thank YOU for forgiving ME" and mean it. IMO, No WAS who feels shamed into coming home, will again feel loving, or warm or affectionate or attracted towards the source of the shame. And that source of the shame won't be the WAS' past action or OP. At some point, the source of the shame IS the LBSer. I see this particularly for the LBSer who guilts the WAS into returning by misusing God or religion, or family/societal approval to get the WAS back. They "expose" the sinner to shame and while they claim to forgive, it is NOT the real kind of forgiveness modelled by Christ (and those of other religions who really forgive). It is the kind of fake forgiveness wherein the LBSer acts as if they are the sole victims of a problematic M, and wear their "forgiveness" as a badge of sainthood, and are smug about it often, so you cannot ever disagree with them due to their moral superiority and they feel OWED by the WAS and blah blah blah and might throw it in their face or LOOK LIKE THEY ARE ABOUT TO every time a conflict arises, and there are elements of punishment that are often present and should be red flags to those claiming to forgive....so many LBSers do this and then wonder why the WAS finds someone else, or simply leaves again, for good. [/color]
To me, that is the shame of this all. And if this does not apply to you or only in part, fine, good. Just wanted to post it.
But obviously some of this counts more or less depending on what you actually know about an A if there was one and if so with whom. I'm not into snooping at all UNLESS you really are sure that you would definitely div and not forgive if there was an A. If you know this, then go ahead and find out what's going on so you can get it all over with. Otherwise you are spinning your wheels A LOT, and that cannot be good for anyone. Or have you rethought that position?
(( j ))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Exposure, done correctly, should never be about shame or condemnation. It should be a loving but firm gesture, that says "I love myself too much to allow this to continue, and I love YOU too much to let you continue in this without a fight."
Done properly, it is basically a marital intervention, and it can be quite effective. It can, however, then make the "repair" work that much more difficult.
