Can anyone answer this? Part 8

[sandi2]

Hi Renee,

I wanted to respond to several things you said in your last post. As you noticed, I write long ones, but don't know how to do it any other way when I first get started or involved with a person and their stitch. Thanks for answering so many of my questions b/c I know it wasn't an easy task, but it helps me to know these things. Believe it or not, I was not surprised at your answers. I have known several women with your problems. In fact, I have someone very close to me who could almost be your twin.

Right now, to be honest, my thinking is...I will never find anyone else that will want me.

This makes me feel very sad for you b/c you must think that life is not worth living unless you have "somebody" who wants you. Now, I know that most of us do hope that we have another person to share life with......but we do not need to depend on another person to make us happy. I did not know that when I was younger. I thought my H was suppose to make me happy and when he didn't.....then I thought I must have M the wrong man. I had a lot of growing up to do and a ton of things to learn about life and love. There are books at the county library that you could check out that would help you understand how that happiness is a choice we make for ourselves. In fact, there is a book by that name....."Happiness is a Choice". I even had a class in that subject at our church. At the time, I was not easily convinced b/c I still thought another person could make me happy or unhappy. What I had to learn was that another person can certainly make a difference in our life, but it is how we "live" and the personal choices we make each day. It depends on our attitude. Eveything effects us based on our attitude! I would not have believed that principle if I had not proven it to myself. Even when we have tragidy in life, and other things that we have no control over.......it is how we respond to all of that....that will determine our well being or destruction. I don't go around preaching "positive attitude" like Norman Vincent Peal (I think was the author), but I know it does make a huge difference in everything. I also know that the opposite (negative attitude) is so very destructive to an individual and to an entire family. So, you will probably hear a lot about that from me. Besides, it doesn't hurt to remind myself of these things.....

So, with that in mind....I want to encourage you to try to start looking at your life through different eyes, okay? Instead of thinking that you will never find anyone else that will want you......practice thinking that anyone else would be very, very lucky to be able to catch a gal as great as you are! You see, if you have the concept that nobody will want you.....that is what people actually preceive from you and in some kind of weird way, it turns folks off and could influence them into actually doing the very thing you do not want to happen! Maybe it causes you to show some type of hidden desparation or whatever.....I just know it is true about human beings. Strange, isn't it?

I feel that one reason you look to somebody else to "want" you and to make you happy is due to your growing up years. All of us have experienced losing boyfriends, etc., but losing the man you were engaged to and the man who went to the miliatary......you took very, very personal. The broken engagement may have been blamed on "you" but that does not mean you were the true reason that the M was called off. Again, it is up to you in how you decide to look at that event. Perhaps you were used to accepting that role in relationships. In other words, you almost subconsciously expected to be the "fault" for not getting M to that first man. Then when the other man joined the military and "left you behind".......you took that as a personal insult & injury. Maybe he had talked about M to you and you felt he was running out on you, but still.......you need to look at it as it being his loss--and was better for you to find out he was not in the right place to get M to anyone at that time. I know you were crushed at the time both of those experiences happened and may not have had anyone to counsel with you to guide you through it, but I think maybe you are still hurting over those events and blaming yourself for not being good enough for either of those two men. If you are.....would you do an exercise for me? Would you practice looking at yourself in the mirror once a day and telling yourself that it was their loss that they did not have the smarts to know a good thing when it came along? Say it with all the "umph" that you can muster! Just do that everyday until I bring it up again.....okay?

I am glad that you had a good 20 years with your XH. I am very glad to hear that he was not always as bad as he seems to be now! I do think he is in MLC by what you say about him. It probably started about two years ago and continued to grow until it came to a full blown situation he could not cover up anymore. Again, I feel that you are taking the "blame" for this. Believe me.....HIM HAVING A MLC IS NOT YOUR FAULT! I don't think there is anyway a spouse can stop the other one from having a MLC. I could talk for a long time about that, but I want to cover some other things you said.

I could not do ANYTHING to make him happy it seemed.

Just as nobody can "make" us happy, neither can we make them happy. It's true we can influence a person's life to much degree, but if he chooses not to be happy.....what can you do about it? Nothing! So, here is what I am asking you to do.....when you look in that mirror and say those things about the other guys?......I want you to tell yourself that you were not the reason for the downfall of your marriage. That's right, that is exactly what I said, b/c you are beating yourself up for all that stuff and it clearly was his doing, so stop with the self punishing. When you tell yourself (by thoughts alone, if not verbally) that you weren't good enough, or couldn't hold on to him, or whatever you may think to yourself.......it is a form of self-induced punishment. In order to get a better self esteem.....you MUST do this "cleansing" and sort of purge all the bad things that you feel about yourself and stop taking the blame for all the relationships that you feel has not been successful. This includes your father leaving. You said that it was b/c of your mother. So, I'm sure it must have been very bad for him to leave his family behind, but a lot of men did that back then.

All those horrible things your H said to you that just shocked the daylights out of you.....that is what is known as "script" for a WAH. You can read other stories and it varies little from what each one says to their W's.

I am very glad to hear that you have cut out the contact. I know it must have been hard, but you are doing the right thing. It was unexcusable of him for hanging up on you when he heard your voice. If it were me, I would not speak to him over the phone anymore. Instead, I would contact him through email at his office (so his girlfriend would not interceed) and talk of only business matters and it would have to be serious before I did it. It would be very short and to the point in a business-like manner. Do not take that kind of treatment from him again. You have done nothing to deserve that and it shows how low down he is to show that type of rude behavior to the mother of his child. You "deserve" to be respected for the 20 years of M he had with you, and for the son you bore for him, and the fact he left you for OW. Hold your head up high and "pretend" to have self-respect.....until you can actually feel your esteem getting higher. That old saying of "fake it till you make it" has a lot of truth to it. If you pretend and practice what you want to "feel".....and you do it every day.....it will finally be true and there will be no more pretending.

It still sucks the breath out of me to hear how badly he treated you and the horrible things he said to you when you were having sex with him. I am so glad that you stopped that. B/c he has been so mean and ugly to you, I hope you will make a determination to work hard at moving forward with your life and stop having any connection with him. The fact that your son is 19 will help a lot. When there are small children in the D, that is very difficult. Of course, the son will always be "the" connection between you and XH and down through the years there will be certain events for the son that you and H will both be there. But don't despair about that. When that time comes, you will have grown with grace and poise and will have so much self-confidence it will knock the socks off of everyone around! BTW, I don't know the deal behind calling your XH about the son, but since he is grown, I hope you will try extra hard to make things where the son has to be responsible for his own debts, actions, etc., and not contact XH everytime son does something that concerns you. I know when you are use to talking to the other parent about those things that it comes naturally, but since things are not on a "friendly" note with your X, then it is best to leave him out of it. Apparently, he has chosen to leave you to be the one there for his son.....so......

Let's talk about your R with your son. My sister has a bully for a H and her son is older than yours but still living at home. Her son has grown up to watch his father treat his mother in a very disrespectful way, so guess how he treats his mother? You got it! It makes me sick to watch this and I tried to tell my sister when my nephew was just a kid that it was going to happen, but she did not have the guts to take charge and stand up for herself. Therefore, she has two men in her home who shows no respect for her.

Your son is simply doing what he has been taught by the behavior laid out before him. Futhermore, he will treat all women just like he has seen his dad treat you. Is that what you want? My nephew talks to other girls disrespectful b/c that is the only way he knows how to deal with women. I promise that he will treat other women the way he treats you. It is not too late to change him. It will be very hard b/c you've let him get away with way too much for way too long! However, as long as he is living under your roof, then you do have an advantage. First of all....stop spoiling him! Don't spoil him b/c of the D. Stop acting like the D was your fault. He will blame you if you have the attitude that the D was your fault. Don't go around with a hound-dog look on your face and for sure don't act like you are hopeless and nobody will/could ever love you again! These types of actions only get more disrespect from those around you. Your son will not think "more" of you or feel sorry for you....he could, however, take the opposite side and think the worst of you. That is not what you want to happen. In order to mold him into the man he needs to be, you have to do certain things for yourself......for his good. You will have to be strict with him (even at 19) for his good. Of course, he will resist this b/c he has had it made and he may try to get rougher, but stick to your guns and don't let him get away with anything.

I was watching a reality show the other night where a woman had a son about 21 who would swear at her and say awful vulgar words and insult her even out in public. She said it was b/c he saw his dad do that when she was M. But.....she did nothing to put a stop to it now! He would disrespect her so badly in a crowd of people and she would just brush it off. He needed his face slapped! No way would I allow my grown son to talk to me like that. I would not let any age child of mine talk to me that way. My son is almost your age, and he is a big man, but if I had to climb up in a chair to get his attention you better believe I would. However, I raised him from the time he was born how to treat women. You know what my DIL has done? She has thanked me over and over again for the way I raised him b/c he treats her like a queen. Don't you know that that is about the greatest compliment I could receive? You can do this. Yes, it will be hard since so much time has passed, but you can do it. You just have to make a "believer" out of him and be consistant. You will never feel good about yourself as long as your own son doesn't treat you with respect. Don't let a day pass or a wrong word or look.......don't let it go unnoticed and let it slip by without dealing with it right then and there. Will you do it?

Another way to make him more responsible and by sure....respect his mom, if for you to make him take care of his own clothes (washing and putting away, etc.), his own car and upkeep (if he has a car) and his own room clean.....and any other things he has. You are not his maid, so don't behave like one. Don't wait on him hand and foot. Make him get his own things. Maybe this never is a problem and if not...that is good. If it is, however, then I would sit him down and tell him things are going to change and now! He won't believe you, probably, so you will have to prove it. One thing.....never shout or yell at him. Talk calmly but sternly. That will get his attention quicker. Never argue with him. You are the parent and it is your house he is staying in. Does not matter if he is 80, he must respect his mother! Alway, always back up what you say. Don't threat, just back up what you said you would do. That means you will have to say what you mean or you may be sorry. You said you had been a good mother, so I am hoping you will not have these problems. I hope I have thrown in a lot of things that were not necessary.

I am so sorry that your Mother abused you sweetie. I believe that is a huge reason for you feeling so unworthy and wanting somebody to love you. You have a desparate "need" for another person to want you in their life. Your mother did not abuse you b/c you were bad and not worthy of her love or devotion, etc. She had problems that she did not deal with correctly. She must have had some bad issues for your dad to leave his family. Don't blame yourself. If you don't, then try to tell yourself each day that you deserved better than what you got! Nobody deserves to be abused by a parent. Abusive parents have troubled souls, but that is no excuse for them to take it out on children. I hope you can heal for what happened in the past. I hope you will be able to reach a place that you can even find forgiveness......not b/c she deserves it, but for your sake and peace of mind. Maybe you were able to do this already. I think it may have made her passing a more difficult time for you that maybe a person who had not had to deal with that type of upbringing. (((Renee))) You can take your time to tell me whatever you need to about anything that happen or things you are still trying to deal with. I hope to hear that you were able to burry things with her and set yourself free of that torture. For what it is worth, I don't think you are having a pity-party. You had more than the usual person to face and it takes a long time to heal over things like that, especially if you have not had professional help. BTW, are you still taking medication?

You spoke of the crowd you ran with at school and not living up to the expections you felt were placed on you........did your mother make you feel the same way? Did you also place too much high standards for yourself? I think that often ends in a case of very low self esteem. Other things do too, of course.

Going back to the old boyfriend who joined the military......I am glad you are not having any contact with him. The fact that you do not want to think of another man touching you now is really a good thing. I say that b/c if you did not feel that way, you could be too vulnerable for a "rebound" relationship. That may be exactly what the military man is looking for b/c of his own M problems. If he was so in love with you, he had a poor way of showing it all these years, right? So, good judgement about that situation!

Okay, about reading the DR book.......have you checked with the Amazon Books on line? They have used books they sell very cheap. Your local libray may have a copy.....I don't know, but you could check. There are several places here on the board that have the first chapters in her book. Also, you probably have noticed that there are many of her articles posted which are very good reads. I wouldn't say that it was absolutly necessary to get the book since you are already D, but if you have an opportunity to read it, it sure wouldn't hurt. You do get a lot from the board here, so if that is the way to get information.....then that's good enough.

Have you checked out the forum for the divorced? I don't think I have really read much, but it might be helpful. I'm not saying you have to move your thread there, just wondered if you have read any of the posts or talked to any of them. Where ever you have your thread, just be sure to stay in one place so it doesn't get confusing.

I better get read for bed. Sometimes I'm not feeling well and don't get to post, so don't worry if you don't hear from me for a couple of days. I do try to get on the board each day that I can.

Renee, I have great hopes for you sweetie. You've had a hard time of it and we are going to get through this yucky time and get you moving forward with your life.....okay?

Take care,
Sandi