A new thread, a new outlook.....

[PositivelyMommy]

Kev, well done.

So if this is a power struggle, then we know what to do.

You don't want to approach this head on. If you do, you will just get your horns locked. No one wins and Weeman gets stuck in the middle.

No, what you need to do is 'manipulate'. Make her think she has the upper hand. You DO NOT start the conversation by persuasion.

What you do is first, validate her feelings about missing her son. (You and I know it's an excuse but she needs to hear it from you so she can let it go)

Then you need to express your feelings. I feel very ... when... I miss Weeman so much...

Then stop. SHUT UP! See what she comes back with.

See if she offers any kind of suggestions for you to see Weeman more.

What you are trying to do is to make her think that letting you see Weeman more is HER IDEA, not yours.

If it's your idea, she will fight you on it tooth and nail because it's a POWER STRUGGLE.

However, if it is HER idea, then it's a GOOD idea.


So no begging, no persuasion.

You have to be manipulative here, be smart, not bullish and argumentative.

Good luck!

[Can it work]

Thank you PM,

That's amazing advice! I think I'll play it exactly as you've suggested. My own thoughts were to work on a compromise. I know I've said to her that I want him on the Tuesday night after I get back from my holiday but I would settle for having him all day on the Tuesday with him going to her house to sleep at night. Obviously I'm not going to offer her that compromise at the outset though but it may be interesting to see what she comes up with.

I think we were really starting to get our feet in the door with regards to a friendship but there is a serious danger of blowing all that hard work tonight. Fingers crossed we can both come out of this smiling.

I got her birthday present from Wee Man home today. It's a gorgeous canvas of him sleeping. I'm very pleased with it and I know she's going to love it. If nothing else, it may work as a bit of a peace offering.

Kev

[PositivelyMommy]

Good luck Kev. You are an awesome dad and still an awesome H. I wish you all the best tonight!

[Can it work]

Well, tonight was a complete disaster. She wouldn't budge an inch and unfortunately there's nothing I can do about it. I achieved nothing but managed to ruin months of progress on building up a friendship. I just don't know where to go from here. I feel as though I've ruined everything.

Kev

[PositivelyMommy]

Kev,

I am so sorry to hear that it went so badly.

How did you ruin months of progress? Did you try to persuade her? Did you let her offer or did she come in the door mad at you? Why do you think you backtracked? Tell me abt your convo.

[Can it work]

Hwy PM,

Well, she did indeed come in the door angry at me. She basically handed me Wee Man, asked that I bath him and left, saying she had things to do and that she'd be back to get him later.

When she came back we sat down and I asked her what we were going to do about next week when I came home. Her answer was basically what she originally decided. I asked her to try and see it from my point of view and understand how much I miss him. I get him so much less time than her and I just want some way to get a little more time when I'm off work and I have that chance. She told me that having him any more nights wasn't going to happen although I could go visit to bath him a couple of evenings if I wanted.

Well, I could see I was fighting a losing battle so I tried something different. I said that I'd still like to have him all day Tuesday, even if he slept at hers. Well, that wasn't acceptable either. She'd have missed him too much to give up another day. I then suggested we could spend the day together with him. Well, I wish I'd never said that one!! She couldn't do that because she feels awkward and uncomfortable being around me!?!?! Now I know why she wouldn't come to lunch on Father's day. That was something I really didn't need to hear. It's as if the progress I felt I've been making over the past few months was completely in my imagination. She couldn't have twisted the knife any better if she'd tried.

So, we eventually did come to a compromise with me picking him up after his morning nap this morning and keeping him till after his morning nap on Tuesday. It's slightly extra time but not what I was hoping for PM. My hands are tied with this one now though.

Kev

[PositivelyMommy]

Oh Kev,

Here's the 2x4 coming your way.

I see what happened. She was mad when she walked in. Though I tried to give you strategy, I don't think you quite understood what I was going for.

She was defensive so the LAST THING you wanted to do was to be accusatory. But that is what she heard when you asked her what she wants to do abt next week. As in, 'I have this problem, I miss Weeman, what are you going to do abt it?'

I know that's not what you meant, BUT this is what she hears from her DEFENSIVE mode.


How about the validating her feelings part? You missed that part. That part would have softened her up. Would have let her know that you heard where she was coming from. But you missed it.

Then you mentioned how much you miss Weeman, she heard it as 'See what you are doing here, I miss Weeman very much because of what you have done.'

Then you panicked and went into persuasion mode. Big time. She shut you down.

Then you panicked even more and went into pursuing mode. She saw the 'spending time as a family together' as 'OMG, he wants to get near me again, he wants to get back together!'

So she pushed you away because she doesn't want to be persuaded/pursued therefore the comment about being uncomfortable with you around. She is trying to push you away so you wouldn't pursue anymore.

Sorry mate, I tried to help. But I think you couldn't help yourself with the persuasion. I told you she doesn't want to be persuaded that what you had to say was a good idea.

It HAD to be her idea. Otherwise it wouldn't fly. That's why I asked you to be QUIET.

We need to go back to basics here. No pursuing. You are happy with your life. No more hinting about spending time together. She is extra extra sensitive about the two of you at the moment.

I imagine she will be in major withdrawal for awhile.

What you have been doing in the past was great. But you lost focus last night. You gave her the impression that:
1) you blame her for things
2) you want to spend more time with her
3) that she is being unfair to you in regards to visitation with Weeman

Again, you need to pull RIGHT BACK.

Don't kick yourself. Learn from this experience and move forward. I keep telling S9, you can't change the past. (Unless you invent a time machine.) This always brings a smile on his face when he kicks himself for doing something 'bad'.

So pick yourself up off your feet, put a smile on your face. Stay focused. Enjoy your time with the little man. Today is a new day!

[Can it work]

I can see what you mean now PM. I'm sure you know as well as most on here though that it's so hard to retain focus when you're in an emotional situation such as I was last night. I'll hold my hands up and say I messed it up big time. As soon as she began by being in a bad mood and being snappy with me all plans went out the window and I guess I panicked and did indeed come across as all those things you've said. Still, I don't think I've slipped this much in a while so I couldn't have been doing too badly up until then.

On a more positive note, I've spoken to her this morning and it was fairly amicable but not entirely friendly. At least she'll still talk to me. I think you're right now that I just have to back off for a bit again. The whole situation last night has set me back quite a ways though. I'm just going to need to deal with that though and start over.

I did make one HUGE mistake last night too and I'm not proud of it. I told her that it was her who chose this path when she left! I'll pause for a moment to give you all time to cringe! Anyway, her comeback was a bit confusing and surprising. She told me that it wasn't her choice at all and we'd made a mutual decision to end this marriage!?!?! WTF!! I was a typical LBS at the start and begged her to stay for all kinds of reasons. I know WAS re-invent the past but seriously, is she delusional?!? Luckily, I got my senses about me enough not to pursue the subject any more but in a way, it may have given me some kind of strange hope. It's hard to explain but she was definitely trying to convince me that she never chose to leave. Almost as if she would've stayed if we hadn't made this "mutual" decision. Does that make sense or am I the one being delusional now?

I am feeling a lot better today though and fully intend to have a good weekend with Wee Man. He'll get to see all his cousins and I'll get to see my family. There's going to be no time for moping around feeling sorry for myself. I'm doubtful that I'll manage to get back on here until Monday though but I will try if I get the chance. I'm fairly sure this thread is going to lock soon too so I'll be needing to start a new one.

Anyhoo, I'd better go and start packing. I'll pop back on later today before I head off.

Kev

[PositivelyMommy]

Hi Kev,

Sorry but I do not share in your hope. I read your e-mail and the feeling I got, and this is just my personal opinion and can be way off the mark, is what she is saying is,"This was both our decision so don't put the blame on me" attitude.

Look it doesn't really matter because the reality is unchanged. She is definitely NOT READY to move forward as a couple. So you need to back up and slowly build up the non-confrontational visits.

Don't ask her out. Don't even flirt for now. It's out of the question.

Just back right up until her temper and defensiveness has died down. Concentrate on you again. Putting focus on you will take the pressure off her.

Have fun this weekend, Kev.

[PositivelyMommy]

Kevin,

I know it is very very very difficult when our spouses come in all pis*ed off. But you know what my DB coach said? She said that if one person is depressed, what is the good if you empathize and then you have two depressed people? She said that when one spouse is depressed, the other one should be cheerful and happy and light, to balance the mood a bit.

So I think that should be the same when one spouse is angry. It won't mend a thing if the other one 'mirrors' their behavior. We should be happy and light and fun! Those are the 180's that Michele talks about. The exact opposite of what the WAS is expecting.

So next time she is around you and is upset, think of a funny image in your head (you may want to prepare that image ahead of time) then walk in like a breath of fresh air and change the mood of the room.

You can do it!