Hi -

I just read your entire thread, its late and my brain is tired, lol, but I didnt want to ignore your request for my POV. I will post some now and continue tomorrow.

Let me say this - I have been separated (not legally) for 18 months and there has been another woman the entire time. Due to my H's behavior I am *very* detached from the situation so my advice might seem hardcore but I realize all situations are different. I am simply giving you my opinion based on my experience because I wasnt always this detached. In fact, I do from time to time still feel a bit sad, betrayed and disappointed but its not life altering and the feelings pass quickly. I simply have no respect for my H and I feel he is pathetic which makes me feel compassion for the man he is.

I am very pro marriage and I do believe in standing for your marriage as long as you are doing it for the right reasons AND you are working on yourself in a true fashion at the same time. I also believe there is a time where you just have to let go and accept that things are over and no amount of "goodness" will change that.

For me, affairs of ANY sort will not be tolerated. I found out about my H's affair and kept it to myself for five months. But, during the five months I did not allow him to come over. In fact, he hasnt been at MY house since May of 2008. He does not get both - his comfy house and caring W working her ass off to save the marriage and an affair on the side. If he did have to come here to pick something up it was placed in the hall and he was not allowed in. If we had something to discuss that could not be done via the phone or e-mail he was regulated to standing in the courtyard and discussing it with me there.

Cleary this had very little impact on him because his affair is still going strong but I didnt do it to send a message to him, I did it for me. I deserved better than to hang out with my H when he was available for an hour or two then have him ditch me for his GF. I would not and still will not allow that. A few months ago he started crying while we were on the phone and told me that I wouldnt even let him come over. He can cry all he wants and I told him that - as long as the affair was goign on you were not welcome. If you want to cheat you will be treated like a cheater. Very simple.

Now, had he not lied to me for so long about it before I confronted him I might have taken a different stance. But, for the five months I knew, he knew I knew and was too wimpy to tell the truth. And when I confronted him he lied some more. He also said his affair wasnt about us but something just for him. The usual BS most cheaters say. I also told him I thought it was pathetic that he would be attracted to a woman that thought it was okay to sleep with a married man now close to 1.5 years.

Personally I dont think exposing the affair is a good idea but this is just my opinion. It rarely has the outcome that one hopes it will have and it causes drama and more anger.

If I had to guess I think your W is still having an affair of some sort and IMO you are making things much too comfortable for her. She has her comfy house, her doting husband, her financial needs met, can bitch and complain about you and the M all she wants because you take it and she gets the fun of the OM. I dont suggest an ultimatum because those rarely will work in your favor but in a way, your actions are telling her that the affair, while not great is acceptable for now.

I would stop with the gifts, dates and any other perks that marriage brings. You ask so many questions and try and figure out so many things and chances are, as much as this will hurt, you may never get any answers and you have wasted a ton of time and emotion on something you will never know.

Use that time for you and your children and take ALL the focus off your W. Let her know that living like roommates is no longer acceptable to you. If she considers herself separated than perhaps its time to take some steps to make that legal - that will mean finances, living arrangements, child custody and so on. Right now she is way too comfortable being separated because nothing is really different for her. Again, that is just my opinion but right now you have made things far too comfortable for her to proceed forward in any way (working on marriage or proceeding with a separation or divorce).

As far as your daughter sleeping in your bed with you and your W that needs to stop. The bedroom of a husband and wife is meant for the husband and wife and not the children. If your W is unwilling to adhere to that then she should find another room to sleep in until she is ready to show the marriage bedroom and you the respect it deserves.

The thing about ALL WAS's is they will continue to find reasons not to like you, love you or bash and blame you (even if most of them are not true) so they can keep justifying their decisions to leave the marriage, break a family apart and have an affair.

Your W sounds like she has some issues (ex: depression) but what you have to realize and accept are her issues are her issues to own and rectify and until she is ready to do that, you cant help her at all. Its really easy for her to say she is depressed because of you or the M. Well, that is HER issue and once she owns it (not likely) and fixes it things might change. But a WAS will rarely own up to their issues.

You mentioned in an earlier post you cant compete with the OM. No, you cant so dont even try and stop letting him fill your headspace. Nobody can compete with the new feeling of lust and attention of an OW/OM when they are coming off a bad marriage. Its exciting, romantic, sexy and a whole slew of other things that are too powerful.

So many WAS fear giving their LBS "false hope". But what I rarely see is the LBS worrying that they are giving the WAS false hope that the affairs will continue to be tolerated, that they will be patient forever or they will just be friends forever.

Marriage counseling wont work as long as the OM is in the picture in any capacity. And while your W might have given you small glimmers here and there IMO glimmers after one year simply arent enough. Life is too short to be in limbo over a marriage for years and years on end. You have value and worth and your W needs to know *you* know that even if she doesnt feel it.

The whole "I feel it or I dont" thing is nothing more than Hollywood BS. The people that say marriages shouldnt be work are the ones that usually have the issues.

Right now your W has all the power and control and she knows it. You need to take back your own power but only you can decide how to do that or when you are ready to do it. As long as the OM is still around (I think he is) and she still says you are separated then maybe its time for you to take some steps to show her what *really* being separated is all about.

WAS are usually stunned when the legal part starts and they realize there are consequences to their actions and everything isnt going to be "even Steven" all wrapped up in a neat package. Now, I am not suggesting you have her served papers tomorrow. But I would perhaps start broaching the subject of YOU needing some changes and one of the big changes needs to be to (A) either stop living like roommates and begin a new phase of the R or (B) move forward with some sort of legal separation so you can begin to rebuild your life in a new way.

These are not suggestions I would make to somebody who just got left but in your case this has been going on for a long time and nothing has changed. Or, there hasnt been any substance in the changes.

As much as you need to work on you, the WAS needs to work on them. Usually though the WAS doesnt do the work, especially when an affair is present, because there are no problems in an affair.

Like I said - I am detached from my situation. I have been in intense counseling for 1.5 years and I am speaking from my own personal experience. For months and months I felt worthless to the point of being unable to leave my house. I also have some medical problems that really made the past 1.5 years hell.

I am off to bed - sorry for the novel and I hope I didnt upset you. This is all just my POV based on my experience.