Over the Shock and GALing 5

[Greek]

Being happy in our R is too risky for her as it would open her up to emotional risks and pain. She can't feel happy in our R right now because she does not feel emotionally safe in it.

Explain this some more. What's happy? What risks? What pain? What's emotionally safe?

So this knowledge that "positive emotions make you vulnerable" helps me to understand. Until my W trusts that the disrespectfulness, judgmentalness, criticism, cynicism, etc are gone from my side of the R and she feels emotionally safe, she is not going to allow herself to be happy and have fun.

This understanding helps me to be patient and not get too frustrated as my attempts at fun and levity get rebuffed.

A+ for Thinker.

You have done an excellent excellent excellent job explaining how she got where she is in the R and what it may take for her to get to a new "safe" place. This is a HOMERUN, Thinker

Thank you for teaching me
Cheers ~

[Thinker]

Thanks Coach and Greek! I really do appreciate the compliments!

(...and per the earlier discussion with AlexEN re difficulty accepting compliments, it's interesting to note that my first instinct was to write something like "Thanks, but I still have a long way to go..." - Just accept the compliment and feel good for a few minutes! )

I just finished the "P" discussion with my W. It went pretty well. No real surprises - a laundry list of all of the things she does all of the day and another list of complaints about things I should be doing but am not. Some of the things she complained that I should be doing (but am not...)are things that I have been doing consistently for months now. I didn't argue - no way to convince her otherwise.

So good practice for me, I have a list now, and she got a chance to vent without me getting defensive.

Baby steps...

[orangedog]

In recent years, my W put up a wall between us, and built her own life - own friends & confidants, own goals, own sources of happiness. I am on the outside, and in her R with me there is no joy, no laughter, no deep discussions of hopes and dreams, no open discussions of needs. I understand this as her defense mechanism. If she isn't happy when we are together, then she can't get disappointed. If she doesn't talk about her needs and dreams, then I can't minimize and dismiss them.

My W has also done this. Sad. We do some friendly things together but I feel I'm on the outside of her world.

[Greek]

I don't know...baby steps? Your last post is a GIANT step I think. You have such a sharp focus on what your W has gone through and a lot of where she is. Thinker ~ you explained it better than I could...and I LIVED it (mostly). Continue to let this amazing insight instruct your actions going forward.

Cheers ~
Nia

[PositivelyMommy]

Thinker,

I was just at Stilllovehim's thread. I really liked your analysis of the 'Partnership' side of her H and the dead 'Romance' side of things.

I agree with it totally. So my question is, I have followed DB and done all the things you suggested to SLH. I am at the point where I am also conviced that the 'Romance' part is dead. Then is this a hopeless case? I want to think so that I can move on. But a very small part of me still hopes for Reconciliation.

I am on Infidelity - PM Thread #6 if you ever want to visit. Thanks!

[Thinker]

Hi PositivelyMommy,

I posted an answer to your question on StillLovesHim's thread

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1781705&#Post1781705

I figured that since you had the question, she probably does as well.

In short, I don't think it is hopeless. I am in exactly the same position, and I don't think my cause is hopeless at all. I do think, however, that things have to be rebuilt in sequence. Trying to work on the "Romance" part before fixing yourself and the "Partnership" part just makes the problem worse - and drives you crazy at the same time...

Also, an A makes the situation even harder. It makes it even more important to detach (ie accept that the Romance part is DEAD) and move forward with your own life. It's impossible to (re)build a romance during an active A, and trying will make you completely nuts!! - believe me, I know from my own experience!

Good luck.

[PositivelyMommy]

Thanks Thinker.

It's just that H is still very passive aggressive and that we really are not friends because he won't follow through on much. So in essence, the friendship part is cr*p as well so a bit pessimistic.

But thanks for your answer, it makes a whole lot of sense. It just may not apply to my sitch.

I still really like your analysis.

[Thinker]

Another day of quiet detachment - with a pleasant evening. I keep reminding myself "The Romance is Dead! Work on the Partnership! Focus on yourself" I am finding that it really helps me, and I have used it a couple of times today to bring my wandering mind back from bad areas. It keeps me from either pursuing or wandering toward codependent controlling-type behaviors.

My W asked me to go out this evening - casual. We had a sitter for the kids (wonder of all wonders) and went out and got a sandwich at a coffee shop and then decided to go see "The Hangover"

As we sat down at the coffee shop, my W announced that she had talked to her C today, and had decided that we should start joint MC again, and if it was OK with me, we should start the week after next (I am traveling for business next week). I was surprised and said OK and confirmed the date and time. I asked if, since the first appointment was not for two weeks, there was anything she wanted to talk about more urgently, and she said no and I didn't pursue it further.

Twice in the past few months we have started joint MC at my request and both times we stopped it at her request because it was too stressful for her (too much pressure!). There was no way I was going to ask again, so her making the decision is at least a positive sign. This could mean anything however. I refuse to let it raise my expectations - just keep doing what I am doing.

During the dinner, I proposed a new distribution of the household responsibilities - me taking on a larger (and probably more fair now that she was also working more) portion of some of the duties. This was my response to the discussion we had several days ago about how unhappy she was with our current habitual arrangement. She looked happy and relieved and agreed.

The rest of the dinner was a bit strained - light conversation, but my W looked very stressed through it. The movie was HILARIOUS (if you liked "Old School"...), and was right up both of our line of humor, so it was a good break for both of us. The walk home was again strained. I was feeling (and maybe projecting) the distance between us emotionally, and I could see clear signs of stress on her.

I know that a big portion of her stress is coming from worrying about her mom's cancer. I also know another portion comes from being near me a setting that is all romantic - a restaurant of any kind, a walk at night, etc.. Not sure how much of her stress is which.

So now we are home and once again doing our own things. I'm giving her space as I would a friendly roommate.

I think I'll go read a bit.

[Coach]

As we sat down at the coffee shop, my W announced that she had talked to her C today, and had decided that we should start joint MC again, and if it was OK with me, we should start the week after next (I am traveling for business next week). I was surprised and said OK and confirmed the date and time. I asked if, since the first appointment was not for two weeks, there was anything she wanted to talk about more urgently, and she said no and I didn't pursue it further.

Twice in the past few months we have started joint MC at my request and both times we stopped it at her request because it was too stressful for her (too much pressure!). There was no way I was going to ask again, so her making the decision is at least a positive sign. This could mean anything however. I refuse to let it raise my expectations - just keep doing what I am doing.

Review what worked to get to this point that goes on the keep list. I like your new mantra, I have a minor suggestion. How about this? -"Focus on yourself, Work on the Partnership." I see a huge shift in you Thinker. You are handling it.
Cheers
Coach

[Thinker]

Thanks Coach,

This is a good time to review:

Interesting in that I have found a lot more things that don't work than things that work. I gets immediate feedback on things that aren't working, but no feedback on things that are.


What has not worked:
- trying to maintain / chase after the romance - kisses goodnight, trying to initiate ML, etc.
- "dates" with any hint of romance
- R discussions initiated by me
- Appearing emotionless - being stoic in during a MC session or R discussion.
- being too emotional - appearing needy
- Standing up for myself to the point of becoming a selfish *ss
- Arguing

What has worked, but which I don't want to keep using
- Fear of my exposing the A (to friends and family)
- Fear of my initiating D

What has worked:
- Focusing on myself. So far it has only confused her, but it has sure made me happier and less crazy!
- Small, appropriate gifts on appropriate days - birthday, xmas, etc. This is supposed to be a no-no, but I have given my W 3 sets of relatively inexpensive earrings over the past 6 months and, although I don't say anything, she wears one of those 3 pairs almost every day.
- Calmly Standing up for myself
- Spending casual time together
- Initiating "P" discussions - discussions about parenting, finances, TCB, etc.

None of these things have been overwhelming overnight successes.

Other things that should be working, and which I am going to continue:
- Continue to carry an increased share of the housework. So far I haven't gotten any credit for this because she is scorekeeping ("I did it for x years so why should I be thank you for doing it for a few months!") and still focused on the exceptions where I don't do something rather than the rule.

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