Why not?

[traveldane]

Been following along this thread....AAK, you definitely inspire me to take a hard look at my sitch and see if "standing" is worth it, what I want.

I keep hearing from people that when a person is ready to move on, they know it and don't look back. I sure hope so. I would never have thought I would feel like hanging in at this point...but you never know until it happens, I guess.

Still, I do somewhat believe in the notion of being stong at this point in our marriage if that is how I feel and that is what it takes. I know my H has been strong for us in the past, and if we come through this, we together would be stronger in the future. Sill, its like, can you throw me a freakin bone here...I am running out of gas!

Anyway, I think you and Lucky Girl are awesome...If I get to the point where I need the granny on the porch with the shot gun...maybe I could call on you two :-)

[aliveandkicking]

AJ- "Really? What would he do that would show you he cares? What have YOU done to show him you care? Those are two really important questions you should be able to answer."

Oh my, are you ready? Ok. He could tell me that he gives one iota of a sh*t about trying to see if there is any chance we can work things out AND/OR give some/any indication that he has an inkling of an idea that we (he and I) have dealt with absolutely nothing in any substantive way and that we are all living in limbo. That a real D will be a brutal departure from what this is now, especially for our children.

What have I done to show him I care? Let's see, started with letting him know I love him and want to be on the same team and deal with our circumstances and get some stability so that we don't have financial drama looming all the time. That was pre-bomb. Post-bomb, after being reduced to a piece of cr*p who was responsible for all of our problems including his EAs with other women, I stopped arguing and defending, took a hard look at myself and apologized for my part, validated and sought to empathize and understand where he was coming from. I went on to give him the space he asked for. I stopped pursuing and expressed that I would accept his decision. Still, I was here for him when he wanted to talk, share, feel together. I convinced my mom to pay for us to go to a ridiculously expensive therapist so that we could create a bridge even if just to co-parent. I made myself vulnerable and honored the things I love about him and was willing to share my insecurities and vulnerabilities with him. Subsequently, I gave him a long list of wonderful qualities about him (per an exercise we were doing) but I did not get the same in return because he decided not too long after that the exercises were too weird. He did appreciate what I gave him and said it was brave and he couldn't do the same. I started to articulate my appreciation for the little changes he was making and love him even though he was not here for me, not being my H and really overall was looking out for only himself. We ML numerous times which I think showed him I cared. I helped him feel like a "man," boosted his ego, talked to him more respectfully, stopped interfering with him and the kids, stopped criticizing, stopped commenting. I let him come into our home and experience being a "family" again, at his leisure.

I learned how to approach touchy topics with care and consideration. I kept my mouth shut until such time as I could be calm, clear and respectful.

I took exemplary care of our children when he was gone. I did not take any actions that would interfere with his ability to travel and live the "fantasy" (his word) he has led. I shrugged off texts and messages that tore at my heart. I've pretty much spared him the stories and the truth about the tremendous toll this has taken on the kids (I only share when I KNOW it is about the kids and not about my judgement about what he is doing).

I have stayed away from almost all of his friends (many whom I thought were mine). I have refrained from snooping or invading his privacy (minus reading the notes left on my dresser). I have read and prayed and actively pursued loving him and forgiving him.

I have stayed open to the possibility of reconciling despite knowing that he may be scr*wing other women, that he has lied to other people about me, that he took his ring off, that has refused to take a real look at our finances and that he has articulated we are "done".

I have spent time with him when I want to crawl out of my skin from the discomfort. I have smiled, looked for the best in him, laughed with him, taken care of certain details for him...

Why have I done all of this? Because I'm a doormat? NO. Because I see it as my challenge to love him fully before he leaves. To know that I grew, that I did my part, that I got the lesson. And, I care deeply about him. I believe that it will be way harder to love those parts of my children that are reflections of him if I can't love them in him.




I think you're a long way off from making a decision to divorce and sticking to it. I can say it sucks to watch husband kick you out of bed to be with the kids, but I can relate and can say that you DID want him to have a closer relationship with the kids. Are you complaining about that or just venting in general?

Uh, I was complaining. I think he needs to sh*t or get off the pot and stop throwing us (his groupies) a bone here and there. I don't think he is "closer" to them by passing out from exhaustion and making sure we all know that if he was able to drive to sleep elsewhere he would...but, maybe those are just words and he really wanted to be here (he knew it was weird). Not sure.


What I see is that you are starting to formulate what a marriage would look like for you. What a husband would be like for you. What you would be like for a husband. What you bring to the table so to speak. THAT my dear is progress. That is the subtle kick in the pants I needed to remind me to figure out me as well. I deeply and with the utmost humility thank you for that. Well, you are so welcome...glad my folly can serve some good around here. I bring so much to the table. I am a woman only a fool would leave. I still have a LOT of work to do though.

As for sushi - yes I am planning to make a trip sooner rather than later. The two of you are welcome if he's in town. Oh, and if we can figure out the story line properly. Long lost brother? War buddy? (that was supposed to make you laugh).

There is no frickin way I would sit with you and my H over sushi. LOL. My life is surreal enough. You want to hang out? We'll see if we can swing it. My new friends are mine for now...



Keep up the good work. You really are growing and doing very well even in your venting.
AJ
_________________________

[aliveandkicking]

And, I played it pretty cool despite my inner spinning.

A&K, You posted to Antlers that you were better helping others than yourself. Can you say co-dependent. Take care of yourself.
So how to use that to your advantage while you are working on it? Detach and look down on your sitch like you are a outsider and coach yourself, you are on the outside looking in the fishbowl. What would you tell yourself to do? What's holding you back?
Choose to love yourself. You can handle it.
Cheers

I thank you Coach for chiming in. Your words are golden.

When it comes to someone else's sitch, Can you say no attachment on my part, total objectivity, no risk for me?

Co-dependent. Yes, I'll buy that too; working on it.

As an outsider? That's painful. Check out SP's thread...watching a train crash while I'm in it with my kids is hellish. Knowing that H and I are steering the train, even worse. Knowing that we both have lived through D and suffered the ramifications, too much. Knowing what H and I are capable of being to each other, the friendship that our R was built upon, hard to accept defeat.

If I were my friend, hmmm...I'd probably be right p*ssed and telling her to get him out and set some boundaries. HOWEVER, having watched my friend kick her ex out and subsequently suffer from the same character defects and go back and forth with him for two years, not sure it is so black and white. See my post to AJ. There is likely a method to my madness.

Question is, am I being selfish? Do my kids need me to take a different course of actions? Am I allowing them to flounder?

I was at a school function with H today and it was really comfortable and friendly at moments and then really sad and weird at other moments...mostly when projecting, "so sad, all these kids have their intact families but not ours."

Went to lunch after with H and one of his friends met us. Awkward, yes. Then, I found my footing and was just me. But, why the hell did I have time to sit around and listen to H talk about rock star some more and brag about the note that was in five star hotel room from big famous (gorgeous) actress who would "love to spend time with him"...I think it was a joke rock star played on him but wouldn't be impossible at this point.

In the car on the way home, I just looked at him, I mean really looked at him and he glanced over and smiled. First real connection and it was because I wasn't judging, I was consciously just taking him in...

Me, what am I doing? I better get back to work. I've already spent half my day on H.

I don't have clarity yet...I'm getting there.

[aliveandkicking]

I keep hearing from people that when a person is ready to move on, they know it and don't look back. I sure hope so. I would never have thought I would feel like hanging in at this point...but you never know until it happens, I guess.

Aren't we all hoping that isn't the case and our S will look back?

I don't know when and how my door will close completely.

BTW- if and when you need the granny on the porch, it will have to be you holding the shot gun but we'll be here to back you up.

[MrBond]

"In the car on the way home, I just looked at him, I mean really looked at him and he glanced over and smiled. First real connection and it was because I wasn't judging, I was consciously just taking him in..."

I halfway expected the next line was going to say "then I stopped the car, opened the door and left him by the side of the road." LOL!

You're doing great.

[aliveandkicking]

"In the car on the way home, I just looked at him, I mean really looked at him and he glanced over and smiled. First real connection and it was because I wasn't judging, I was consciously just taking him in..."

I halfway expected the next line was going to say "then I stopped the car, opened the door and left him by the side of the road." LOL!

You're doing great.

That would have been something! Ya, isn't that line great? You can fill in the rest with whatever you think works best.

Hey, this could be fun- anyone else have an ending for my run on sentence?

[aliveandkicking]

NO. Because I see it as my challenge to love him fully before he leaves.

Ok. For all of the fans of Freud out there. My father died when I was just in the midst of fully detaching from him. I was not able to "love him fully" before he left"...hmmm....or did I? I held his hand for three months and loved him through the pain, and disappointment and discomfort. What am I reliving here? Am I making it the same or different? Lots to chew on.

[mindfull]

[/quote]

Ok. For all of the fans of Freud out there. My father died when I was just in the midst of fully detaching from him. I was not able to "love him fully" before he left"...hmmm....or did I? I held his hand for three months and loved him through the pain, and disappointment and discomfort. What am I reliving here? Am I making it the same or different? Lots to chew on.[/quote] [b][/b]

AAK - I have to admit, I'm not deep enough to even get near this, but it seems significant. I just think, based on your words and feelings you've shared with us, how could you have NOT loved H enough yet? It just doesn't appear that you could even love that little? Consider how MANY people would be here, committing this time and emotional energy to trying to figure this all out? COME ON!! Ok, that's all I can add. Give your self some credit, and forgiveness.

"That's as deep as the blankmind gets!"

[aliveandkicking]

[/quote]

AAK - I have to admit, I'm not deep enough to even get near this, but it seems significant. I just think, based on your words and feelings you've shared with us, how could you have NOT loved H enough yet? It just doesn't appear that you could even love that little? Consider how MANY people would be here, committing this time and emotional energy to trying to figure this all out? COME ON!! Ok, that's all I can add. Give your self some credit, and forgiveness.

I do give myself credit. Just acknowledging that I may be projecting and sort of reliving that experience of trying to love someone who is leaving and the pain associated with that. So much was left unspoken with my father. I had to let it go and love him despite the fact that he had hurt me so and I was at a loss for how to have a safe relationship. This just feels so similar. I mean I can't "love" H enough, he's too insecure...it isn't even about love. It is about decency and respect; both characteristics that seem deficient in H and my father...

I am really hurting right now. Thanks for checking in.

[AJM]

Hurting is part of it. Sucks, but there it is. You are doing very very well.

He could tell me that he gives one iota of a sh*t about trying to see if there is any chance we can work things out AND/OR give some/any indication that he has an inkling of an idea that we (he and I) have dealt with absolutely nothing in any substantive way and that we are all living in limbo. That a real D will be a brutal departure from what this is now, especially for our children.

Hasn't he "told" you that? Not with words. Do you think he comes back for the kids alone? Seriously? Not likely based on his behavior :o)

One of the things I think you are really doing well is your soul searching. You really are soul searching and doing well. Don't get too hung up on the past, but it helps to know who you are, right?

You come across as a wonderful woman. You come across as a person who is really making great strides to grow as a woman. I'm proud of you. I know it sucks, but you really are doing well. Your comment that you are the woman that anyone would want is a real treasure. You are. But I will point out that you still want some things in return - the time with the kids. I can relate, but it stands out as something that is causing you resentment. Getting out from between him and the kids is a positive step - it is. But expecting him to want to spend time with them at this point might be a stretch. I think he does, but he needs to spend more for the kids sake.

You are really a fabulous person. You are really growing. You are that woman that anybody would want to be with. Not that you want anyone else to be with you, but....

Keep working on you. You know what you need to work on with you. Don't expect him to live up to your wants right now. That will come later...when he's ready. Will you be there when he is (that is your next question right?) - I think so. I think you need to keep doing what you're doing and stop thinking that he's whoring around - he may or may not be, but truth is you don't know. That's where you are projecting if you ask me - from something unresolved perhaps?

Keep up the good work. You are a fabulous and wonderful woman and are really growing. Don't miss the opportunity for you!

AJ

P.S. Sushi. I can understand that is a bit odd. Truth is I'm glad you said it. I didn't want to make you uncomfortable in not inviting him. Hopefully you know a few good places. LA hasn't been my home in a long time and restaurants may have changed since.