Then, help me out with that! How would I feel like I wasn't rolling over. We've always taken big trips. I want to stay calm and loving...value, respect, and compassion.
Antlers,
Could you break the trip into two parts and come back for a day in the middle? Make it an even more special trip for the kids by taking them one place for 5-7 days, come back home so they can see W for a day, then hit the road again? Have you really "caved" if you do this? No, you've acknowledged your roll in the snafu (for which you each bear some responsibility), figured out an alternative, shown W that you hear her (even if you don't agree), and, perhaps best of all, given the children an even better experience with you. Would that feel like rolling over?
You could even "position" it this way: "Say W, been thinkin' 'bout my plans. It wouldn't hurt for me to come back for a day in the middle of the trip... I have to _________ that day anyway. SO, I changed plans and we'll be back in town on June __; can I leave them with you that day? I’ll pick them up again at __ p.m. and we'll be on our way again. I know I'd miss them, too, if we were apart that long. I'm not looking forward to these absences myself, you know. But, I think that might work out for all of us."
-AlexEN
Yeah, I could do something like that. They, and she, might be Ok with something like that. She might not...I don't know. I don't know if it's 'caving in' or not? If we took our big vacation, and she wasn't there...there would be no fighting between she and I like she said there always was...and the kids and I could have a good time! I do believe we each bear some responsibility for miscommunication regarding this issue. I certainly don't mind working out alternatives, and showing my wife that I listen to her. I want to do things like that! They don't mean anything to her though, anymore! The children are gonna have fun...I'll see to that, regardless of where we go or for how long! Maybe it's not rolling over, although she would see it as her being able to dictate to me once more.
I like your response too! If I use it, and I'm still working on a response, I'll probably do some editing. Thank you AlexEN for helping me out so far. Thank you for your time and effort.
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
You D is 13 or around there? Ohhhh ho ho... I was EVIL at 13. The hormones rage and NOTHING is fair and parents are uncool and embarrassing. Keep in mind that this situation is landing on top of a difficult age for your D. I promise - It WILL pass.
Four months seems like a long time, but it could take until she is 15 or 16 to level out and see clearly. Your W isn't going to do everything perfectly in your D's eyes, either, so your D will eventually have enough evidence to understand that no one is the bad guy here.
Don't look at what your W is doing. Keep doing what you are doing and keep the faith. Don't watch the clock. Just decide that you are a better man for the rest of your life. A point will come at which no one can deny that. You will be embraced again.
A father is extremely important to a girl. You are her first definition of a man. By moving out, she will feel abandoned by you no matter what your W has done or how your W feels. Your D will be angry with you no matter what. Please be patient and take her painful cuts and jabs to show her that you will not *really* go away. That you are her dad no matter what, and that you love her no matter what. Be her hero. You almost have to be godlike, I'm sorry to say -- that is a tall order. But, you have to face the pain of your D's rejection and show her that you will always be her rock.
I know you're angry at your W and confused by her reactions to you. Just let her be for now and keep shining.
I hope that helps. I know you have to go through your anger and pain in your own time. You will feel better in time.
Lucky
Yeah, she'll be 13 in November. She gets along great with her mom, but she is hateful and disrespectful to me...since the separation. I hope it will pass...it hurts!
Four months does seem like a long time...I just hope she levels out at some point! She is so biased, and I know my wife is encouraging her...because she can. Wife was never like this before either!
Ok, I'll keep doing what I am and have been doing! I'm staying strong the best I can, and keeping faith and remaining hopeful...despite the mean and hurtful things that my wife continues to say to me. I know it takes time...sometimes a very long time! I am a better man, and will be for the rest of my life! I hope a point will come where no one can deny that...especially my wife and youngest daughter.
I've always thought that too, but my daughter couldn't care less about me! She saw me angry and resentful for a lot of her life...then she saw me weak and devastated when my wife left. I didn't move out...my wife moved out! I am still in our home. She doesn't feel abandoned by her mom! Why isn't she angry at her mom? I've been patient, I'm still here and I'm not going anywhere...and she still cuts like a knife and jabs like a boxer! I've told her, and shown her, that I'm her dad and I love her no matter what! She sees me in a derogatory light. She doesn't look up to me. Godlike, huh? That is a tall order! Her rejection is painful, as is her mothers.
I am not angry at her. I'm hurt by her, and I'm frustrated! I've been trying to shed this stuff like water off a duck's back...the painful things my wife says to me. I'm really doing the best I can, and I'm so different than I used to be...although it doesn't matter to her anymore.
Your feedback does help LuckyGirl. I'm not mad. But I have been...and still am...dealing with much pain. I hope I continue to feel better with the passing of time.
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
Another thought: Your W is so angry and hateful, I'm thinking that's somehow a good thing. For whatever reason(s), she feels justified in her anger and justified in leaving you. If she didn't care and was completely rid of you in her heart, she wouldn't have such seething anger. If you can make it up to her, maybe not today, maybe not this year, but someday... you never know what can happen.
Certainly might be too early for these thoughts, but thought I'd throw them out there to help you stay resilient.
Antlers, You are getting good advice. Here's my perspective - your W is telling you how the kids feel - stand up to that and ask her why she feels that way? You have recieved validation from you kids they want to go, they see your changes and she is not going so there won't be the tension she is forecasting. This is the hard part about being friends and discussing things that you don't agree with. See if you can maybe shorten your trip to show you can bend and are taking some of your W's concerns into account. Love yourself first - you probably could use the vacation and the time with your kids. Then without compromising your values show some compassion. This would be leading thru this opportunity. You can handle it. Cheers
Hi coach.
This is the pitts! I know I'm getting good advice. The consensus seems to be that I should reconfigure my trip, and look at it as being the right thing to do...instead of...caving in! Do you agree that I should do that? I know how my son feels, and I know how my daughter felt. Now though, my daughter has been influenced. Should I tell her that my son wanted to go to Phoenix and my daughter 'did' want to go to California? Or should I just let it go and take the advice of the majority here? Agreed...since she isn't going, there won't be any fighting between she and I. I do take her concerns into account, ever since this bad stuff started to happen...to no avail. I'm the only one who benefitted from it, by becoming more compassionate. It means nothing to her. I have to love myself by having compassion for myself too! I'm concerned about my hurt too...and I have the will to do something about it! I could use the vacation, and the time with our kids. Compassion...that's the majic word to me. You have to show it regardless of how others treat you! Would it really be 'leading' Coach?
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
Another thought: Your W is so angry and hateful, I'm thinking that's somehow a good thing. For whatever reason(s), she feels justified in her anger and justified in leaving you. If she didn't care and was completely rid of you in her heart, she wouldn't have such seething anger. If you can make it up to her, maybe not today, maybe not this year, but someday... you never know what can happen.
Certainly might be too early for these thoughts, but thought I'd throw them out there to help you stay resilient.
Lucky
I've thought about that LuckyGirl, but I don't know. I've sure said a lot of crap to her over the years that I did not mean...just because I was mad or hurt. She seems to mean it though. Hard to imagine her behavior to me being a good thing. Yeah, she does feel justified in her anger...and I can't argue too much with that. She feels justified in leaving too, and although I understand how she felt like she had to do it...I wish she had chosen something different. Really? You think that since she still has seething anger directed at me...that she still cares some for me? I've tried for months to make it up to her, and am committed to staying with it and not giving up...even though I'm detatching and 'dropping the rope'. I hope she heals, and I hope she forgives me.
I appreciate that...resiliency is something that I need to have.
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
If it had previously been discussed (spending time away from kids) and agreed upon, that would be one thing, but your wife may well feel that she is being blindsided with this vacation and also may feel that you are using the kids as bait/tool to 'hurt her'. I'm sure that's not what you are doing, but this is a beautiful chance for you to show that you can be compassionate to her and a different Antlers from the one she is used to.
How about you (to quote CityGirl) 'reconfigure the trip for a shorter period of time' and do some day trips or something. When serving up your compromise to her you could say something like:
"I've been thinking lots about this vacation thing and as much as I was really looking forward to the trip, I guess I didn't truly put myself in your shoes and think about how you would feel if they were away for 12 days. How about if <insert compromise here>? then see what she says. Then later on in another conversation maybe raise the topic of discussing how you both will approach vacations in future (eg how much notice to give the other parent, how long is okay etc).
Up until your last few posts you have been handling this well adn thinking about her feelings. You seem to be pissed (and I don't blame you) but don't slip back into what you say were your 'old ways'.
I wish my husband would open up like you have. How much of your feelings of remorse and validation have you shared with your wife?
Hi Purple.
It hasn't been discussed really, and it hasn't really been a problem until now. She disagreed with me taking them for Spring Break for the days that I did, but we worked that out. haven't had any problems with sharing the kids either. Do you think she felt 'blindsided' with this vacation...or is she just dictating to me how it's gonna be? How would taking the kids on the kind of vacation that we always have 'hurt' her? I wouldn't do that. I've shown nothing but compassion towards her ever since before she moved out, and it's meant nothing to her. I am different...doesn't matter to her.
I can reconfigure the trip without much of a problem. I've been being compassionate, and she walks all over it. I like your response. If I use it, I might do some editing. We do need to talk about future vacations, and how to communicate better regarding them.
I do think about her feelings quite a bit, lots of time more than my own! I'm really not 'pissed'...I'm frustrated and hurt. I will not slip back into being the way that I used to be.
I have opened up to her too, a lot! I have shared tons of my feelings of remorse with my wife...she says it means nothing to her because it still doesn't make up for the way I've treated her in the past! I have validated her feelings at every opportunity.
Thank you Purple for your time and effort in trying to help me.
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
LuckyGirl...I hope you are right when you said earlier that "It's going to take time to win them all over. You can definately do this, but you must be patient, give them plenty of breathing room, and let them lean in toward you. Pressure off."
I love my wife, and I love my family...despite her saying that 'we are not a family anymore'. Things do not look good for us right now. I appreciate the vote of confidence though.
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
Just to clarify... I'm not guaranteeing or even guessing that you will win your marriage back.
Your kids, though. They are yours forever and they will always look to you for approval and guidance. If you carry yourself with dignity, treat them with genuine kindness and love... really listen to them and help them through life's difficulties... How can they NOT love their father? Eventually, your W's anger will likely cool off when she realizes that it is for her own good. And then perhaps she will be able to see you through kinder, more open eyes.
You can't be desperate or impatient. This isn't going to be quick.
I have a couple of GFs, sisters, whose parents split up when they were just entering high school. They HATED their father for leaving. Today, they are in their late 30s. They now hang on his every word and yearn for time with him.
Your kids will come around. Just wait out those nasty early/mid teens! And stay the course with your personal development, for yourself first, and then for them.
Antlers- The 12 days without either of you is obviously too long and extreme under the circumstances. This is not what you "used to do." This is with one parent or the other. So, yes, you would do best to compromise. I think you get that.
Your daughter. You will eventually have a healthy R with her if you are consistent, reliable, demand respect (gently and lovingly) and give her time, love her, validate her feelings. EVERY daughter wants her father's love. She is, at her age, naturally going to relate to her mom. But, she is watching you. Looking to see if men are strong enough and loving enough to hold steady and strong. She will test you and manipulate you in subtle or overt ways (if you really loved me you'd let me x or y)...there have got to be some good books out there for fathers parenting daughters. Trust me though, mother/daughter relationships are hairy beasts and your wife will have to work this out with D someday. You be you, reliable, stable, loving, compassionate, flexible but firm when you need to be. Parenting is hard enough, this makes it harder but you can do it. Having a dad that cares as much as you do makes ALL the difference in the world. Just let her know you are there and then be there when she is ready...give her time.
Also, now is not the time IMO, to prove to D that you know better than her what she will or wont enjoy (bringing her on a trip she would say she wouldn't like but you know she will)...I think you should try to let her participate in making plans...again, just my opinion and you do need to lead. Sometimes it is worth it to push but I'm not sure that time is now.
