Newly separated...spouse left, 4th thread

[AlexEN]

Then, help me out with that! How would I feel like I wasn't rolling over. We've always taken big trips. I want to stay calm and loving...value, respect, and compassion.

Antlers,

Could you break the trip into two parts and come back for a day in the middle? Make it an even more special trip for the kids by taking them one place for 5-7 days, come back home so they can see W for a day, then hit the road again? Have you really "caved" if you do this? No, you've acknowledged your roll in the snafu (for which you each bear some responsibility), figured out an alternative, shown W that you hear her (even if you don't agree), and, perhaps best of all, given the children an even better experience with you. Would that feel like rolling over?

You could even "position" it this way: "Say W, been thinkin' 'bout my plans. It wouldn't hurt for me to come back for a day in the middle of the trip... I have to _________ that day anyway. SO, I changed plans and we'll be back in town on June __; can I leave them with you that day? I’ll pick them up again at __ p.m. and we'll be on our way again. I know I'd miss them, too, if we were apart that long. I'm not looking forward to these absences myself, you know. But, I think that might work out for all of us."


-AlexEN

[antlers]

LuckyGirl, you said "they need time to grow warmer feelings and trust in you" regarding the kids. We've been separated for going on 4 months. My son and I are doing OK, but my daughter and I are not doing OK...she has no respect for me, and she is mean and hateful towards me...just like her mom is/has been being! This has only been since the separation too! My wife is not doing me any favors with the kids...it doesn't work with my 11 y/o son...but it works with our daughter. My wife told me that a parent shouldn't use a kid against the other parent...that they shouldn't try to turn a kid against the other parent. I will not do that...but she does! She was never like this in the past! How long is it supposed to take for them, daughter especially, "to grow warmer feelings and trust in you"?

[antlers]

LuckyGirl, you also said "let them come to you more" regarding the kids. My son does and has, but my daughter doesn't! Why? How much longer will it take with her?

[antlers]

Hi Purple.

I will respond to your thoughtful post in a bit, as I want to think about it some more...and I want to put some more time into it. TTYL. Thanks.

[LG nm12]

You D is 13 or around there? Ohhhh ho ho... I was EVIL at 13. The hormones rage and NOTHING is fair and parents are uncool and embarrassing. Keep in mind that this situation is landing on top of a difficult age for your D. I promise - It WILL pass.

Four months seems like a long time, but it could take until she is 15 or 16 to level out and see clearly. Your W isn't going to do everything perfectly in your D's eyes, either, so your D will eventually have enough evidence to understand that no one is the bad guy here.

Don't look at what your W is doing. Keep doing what you are doing and keep the faith. Don't watch the clock. Just decide that you are a better man for the rest of your life. A point will come at which no one can deny that. You will be embraced again.

A father is extremely important to a girl. You are her first definition of a man. By moving out, she will feel abandoned by you no matter what your W has done or how your W feels. Your D will be angry with you no matter what. Please be patient and take her painful cuts and jabs to show her that you will not *really* go away. That you are her dad no matter what, and that you love her no matter what. Be her hero. You almost have to be godlike, I'm sorry to say -- that is a tall order. But, you have to face the pain of your D's rejection and show her that you will always be her rock.

I know you're angry at your W and confused by her reactions to you. Just let her be for now and keep shining.

I hope that helps. I know you have to go through your anger and pain in your own time. You will feel better in time.

Lucky

[antlers]

Would it make sense to talk to the kids about how long they want to be away and include them in the plan-making? This is about THEM, not her.

Lucky, what do you think?

Antlers, I think this should really be more about what you and your kids want to do with your time together.

The length of time sounds like it is out of the norm and maybe should be compromised some. You need to be honest with yourself about that. AND, I think you should make a mutual agreement about how long is ok for both of you. Then, you both feel respected.

If I told my son where we were planning on going, he would love it and would want to go. My daughter has already been influenced by my wife, and would say 'no'...even though she would love it after we got to where we were planning on going. Yeah...it's about the kids and I...but evidently, my wife has to be taken into consideration also. We've always taken trips this long in the past, but we haven't been gone this long since the separation. I really am honest, not only with me...but with my wife too. Mutual agreements about how long is OK for both of us sounds good to me. I want to show compassion, respect, and value for her and for myself...more than anything else.

[Coach]

Antlers, You are getting good advice. Here's my perspective - your W is telling you how the kids feel - stand up to that and ask her why she feels that way? You have recieved validation from you kids they want to go, they see your changes and she is not going so there won't be the tension she is forecasting.
This is the hard part about being friends and discussing things that you don't agree with. See if you can maybe shorten your trip to show you can bend and are taking some of your W's concerns into account.
Love yourself first - you probably could use the vacation and the time with your kids. Then without compromising your values show some compassion. This would be leading thru this opportunity. You can handle it.
Cheers

[antlers]

I thought about Antlers talking with the kids, and think it's OK as long as they are doing most of the talking. There is a fine line between letting the kids have a say and getting them too involved in matters that two adults should be handling with maturity and reason.

Antlers: Have you and your W worked out a schedule with regard to visitation? Two weeks is a very long time.

I know that you *heard* that you W was planning on bringing the kids to the grandparents house for 2 weeks, but this is HERESAY. You cannot assume that it's true until you tell her that you heard this information and get verification from her on it.

Overall, expectations with regard to visitation, holidays, and vacations need to be set before either of you make any plans.

You need to come to an agreement with your W so the kids don't have to be dragged through the undercurrent of push/pull!

Lucky

I'll talk with the kids when they come back over, but my daughter is so anti-dad that I don't know how much good it'll do. I want to handle things with my wife with maturity and reason...but I don't know if she's still 'fogged out' or what?

Things have been goin OK with that, as they are with each of us 50% of the time, respectively. We haven't had a situation like this come up until now.

i know she will have to verify it for it to be true...I'm just saying that 'if' it were true...I would be OK with it.

We need to communicate with each other more/better, I suppose, regarding big things...like vacations.

She thinks the kids are fine. She doesn't believe this separation is having an effect on them at all.

[antlers]

Oh... And regardless of what the W is saying to the kids, let your actions speak louder than her words. Let your behavior negate her negativity about you. They are children, but they are wiser and more aware and perceptive than we think.

It will take time, but you will prevail with steadfast consistency.

Lucky

I intend to let my loving actions speak louder than her words...doesn't seem to be working with daughter though! I intend to let my loving behavior negate her negativity about me...doesn't seem to be working with daughter though! I know they are children...but I hope they are wiser and more aware and perceptive than we think!

That's good to know...that I "will prevail with steadfast consistency". It just hurts...for my daughter to treat me the way that she does, and to feel about me the way that she does.

[LG nm12]

It must hurt deeply. I am sorry.

You are the parent here. It is up to you to demonstrate maturity and authentic, selfless love so that your D learns it for herself!

Lucky