You've obviously worked tremendously hard, and I can understand that you absolutely must have respect from your family. I don't think you should just take it from her. You just need to stand tall and dignified and let her see all that you are. There isn't much more you can do, and if she wants to stay in the gutter of anger... that is HER problem, not yours. You can rise above and be happy, loving, sane and stable dad.
You seem to cherish these vacations, and I think that is terrific. But, what if the kids ARE dreading it? Do you really want them to be dragged on a vacation that they are dreading? Perhaps they aren't ready... I think I would want to talk with them about it, tell them how excited you are about it, and ask if they are too.
I'm a little bit sketchy on your entire vacation sitch here, but I have some questions for you... First, is there a true economic cost to you changing your plans. Secondly, are you sure you aren't falling into old patterns by not being willing, despite your feelings about it (and no matter how "wrong" you may feel she is), to compromise?
Separately, and not to throw fuel on the fire, does the fact that she has had conversations with D about the trip imply that she knew more about the specifics than she let on... or could those conversations all have happened once the miscommunication came to light?
In any event, if there really isn't an economic cost of changing your plans, I think there is a way to compromise that wouldn't feel like "rolling over" to you...
-AlexEN
New: What a Weekend
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You've obviously worked tremendously hard, and I can understand that you absolutely must have respect from your family. I don't think you should just take it from her. You just need to stand tall and dignified and let her see all that you are. There isn't much more you can do, and if she wants to stay in the gutter of anger... that is HER problem, not yours. You can rise above and be happy, loving, sane and stable dad.
You seem to cherish these vacations, and I think that is terrific. But, what if the kids ARE dreading it? Do you really want them to be dragged on a vacation that they are dreading? Perhaps they aren't ready... I think I would want to talk with them about it, tell them how excited you are about it, and ask if they are too.
I'm so sorry. Such a tough situation.
Lucky
My son told me he wanted to go to Phoenix! And my daughter told me she wanted to go to California! I feel like sending her this message...
"Wife, I understand and relate to your feelings of how much of an adjustment it will be to not see the kids for this time. I'm sure I'd feel the same if the situation were reversed. I think I understand how you're feeling about this, as I sure miss our kids when we're apart."
Again, I didn't have a problem when the kids told me they we're going to their grandmother's house (wife's parents) for a couple of weeks this summer.
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
I don't know... The root of this conflict is lack of communication. I think you need to back off of this fight or she is just going to conclude that you are being stubborn and selfish. Even though YOU ARE NOT (don't think I'm name-calling here.)
I really would back off from this and reconfigure the trip for a shorter period of time. She does have a right to an opinion on this matter. I wouldn't want to be apart from my son for that long, either.
I know you are angry, and rightfully so, but I don't think staying firm on what you want for this vacation is going to yield good results. It would be different if you had discussed this with her prior, without making assumptions about what she was planning based on heresay.
This advice probably isn't what you want to hear, but it is what I think will make you the better man in this conflict.
Perhaps others will chime in with differing perspectives.
I'm a little bit sketchy on your entire vacation sitch here, but I have some questions for you... First, is there a true economic cost to you changing your plans. Secondly, are you sure you aren't falling into old patterns by not being willing, despite your feelings about it (and no matter how "wrong" you may feel she is), to compromise?
Separately, and not to throw fuel on the fire, does the fact that she has had conversations with D about the trip imply that she knew more about the specifics than she let on... or could those conversations all have happened once the miscommunication came to light?
In any event, if there really isn't an economic cost of changing your plans, I think there is a way to compromise that wouldn't feel like "rolling over" to you...
-AlexEN
AlexEN, I could change the plans right now with no economic costs. I don't feel like I'm unwilling to compromise...I'm definately not like I used to be. I don't mind the kids going to wife's parents for a cuople of weeks this summer like they told me they might do.
Daughter doesn't know specifics either, as I was gonna surprise them by taking them somewhere that they LOVED in the past! She's not doing me any favors with the kids, especially daughter. More conversations have taken place, probably, since the miscommunication came to light. She has 'won' daughter over to her side...something I have no interest in doing with any of our kids.
Then, help me out with that! How would I feel like I wasn't rolling over. We've always taken big trips. I want to stay calm and loving...value, respect, and compassion.
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
If it had previously been discussed (spending time away from kids) and agreed upon, that would be one thing, but your wife may well feel that she is being blindsided with this vacation and also may feel that you are using the kids as bait/tool to 'hurt her'. I'm sure that's not what you are doing, but this is a beautiful chance for you to show that you can be compassionate to her and a different Antlers from the one she is used to.
How about you (to quote CityGirl) 'reconfigure the trip for a shorter period of time' and do some day trips or something. When serving up your compromise to her you could say something like:
"I've been thinking lots about this vacation thing and as much as I was really looking forward to the trip, I guess I didn't truly put myself in your shoes and think about how you would feel if they were away for 12 days. How about if <insert compromise here>? then see what she says. Then later on in another conversation maybe raise the topic of discussing how you both will approach vacations in future (eg how much notice to give the other parent, how long is okay etc).
Up until your last few posts you have been handling this well adn thinking about her feelings. You seem to be pissed (and I don't blame you) but don't slip back into what you say were your 'old ways'.
I wish my husband would open up like you have. How much of your feelings of remorse and validation have you shared with your wife?
Last edited by Purple; 06/09/0903:04 PM.
** Purple
As soon as you trust yourself you will know how to live. Goethe
I don't know... The root of this conflict is lack of communication. I think you need to back off of this fight or she is just going to conclude that you are being stubborn and selfish. Even though YOU ARE NOT (don't think I'm name-calling here.)
I really would back off from this and reconfigure the trip for a shorter period of time. She does have a right to an opinion on this matter. I wouldn't want to be apart from my son for that long, either.
I know you are angry, and rightfully so, but I don't think staying firm on what you want for this vacation is going to yield good results. It would be different if you had discussed this with her prior, without making assumptions about what she was planning based on heresay.
This advice probably isn't what you want to hear, but it is what I think will make you the better man in this conflict.
Perhaps others will chime in with differing perspectives.
Best, Lucky
I don't know either LuckyGirl! Maybe we should have communicated more beforehand, but she has told me that what she does is none of my business...but what I do 'is' her business? She has said 'we're not a family anymore'...but wants to have a say-so when the kids are with me? You think I should back off? I don't want to fight or have conflict. I am not stubborn or selfish...anymore! But, she will find something wrong with everything that I do or say, because she is still so pissed at me.
So, I should reconfigure our trip? For her? It won't matter to her or change anything...she'll just figure she steamrolled me again! She has a right to on opinion on this...but she's told me that "it's none of your business" when it comes to her. I didn't want to go from being a full-time parent to being a part-time parent either...but I had no choice in the matter!
I'm not angry...really I'm not. I'm frustrated! Nothing that I say or do yields good results with her. I can give in, like I've been doing, and still have no respect from any of them. My son actually gets mad at me for not being more firm with her! Maybe discussing it with her prior would have been better...I don't know.
I want to be the better man...always. I've been a bastard in the past, and it's what led to the overwhelming majority of our problems. I'm NOT that way anymore. I want to do the right thing...for all involved, including myself.
I hope others will chime in with their perspectives.
ps - Thank you for helping me with this LuckyGirl. I'm having a hard time too!
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
Would it make sense to talk to the kids about how long they want to be away and include them in the plan-making? This is about THEM, not her.
Lucky, what do you think?
Antlers, I think this should really be more about what you and your kids want to do with your time together.
The length of time sounds like it is out of the norm and maybe should be compromised some. You need to be honest with yourself about that. AND, I think you should make a mutual agreement about how long is ok for both of you. Then, you both feel respected.
I thought about Antlers talking with the kids, and think it's OK as long as they are doing most of the talking. There is a fine line between letting the kids have a say and getting them too involved in matters that two adults should be handling with maturity and reason.
Antlers: Have you and your W worked out a schedule with regard to visitation? Two weeks is a very long time.
I know that you *heard* that you W was planning on bringing the kids to the grandparents house for 2 weeks, but this is HERESAY. You cannot assume that it's true until you tell her that you heard this information and get verification from her on it.
Overall, expectations with regard to visitation, holidays, and vacations need to be set before either of you make any plans.
You need to come to an agreement with your W so the kids don't have to be dragged through the undercurrent of push/pull!
Oh... And regardless of what the W is saying to the kids, let your actions speak louder than her words. Let your behavior negate her negativity about you. They are children, but they are wiser and more aware and perceptive than we think.
It will take time, but you will prevail with steadfast consistency.
