A new thread, a new outlook.....

[MsMelancoly]

Hi Kev, Just wanted to stop by & offer my support. As always you are getting some good advise. Time lines, there are none. Don't let your mind sabotage your progress. You're doing great!!! Keep that PMA going!!

[PositivelyMommy]

So Kev, you asked her out. She declined and saw it as pursuing, that's why she has taken the opportunity to take a walk during your visits to Weeman. So now, you know what doesn't work. Don't ask her out, don't seem to be pursuing.

In fact, do a 180. Act as if you couldn't care less if she was there or not. You will NOT be thinking of her on her birthday. I'd say, don't even buy her a card as this small and innocent gesture could be blown out of all proportions by the pursued party. In fact, don't acknowledge her birthday in any way, no 'Happy Birthday' or anything. Just take Weeman out. It's Father's Day, that's all you need to think about. PULL WAY BACK!

As for visitation, I know DB Coach said not to push just yet. But sooner or later (maybe later) you need to bring it up. The reason being you are the boy's father and you have every right to see him 50% of the time.

What is your gut feeling? Why do you think she doesn't want you to see him so much? Because SHE doesn't want to see you so often? Because she thinks you will reduce your child support payments? What do you think her arguments are and plan a verbal reason when the subject comes up.

But alas, here is some hope. She has not filed for a D. She has not refused to see you at all. She has not verbally abused you or slander you in any way. These are all good things. Sometimes it's important to keep in mind what is going RIGHT.

[Can it work]

Thanks for your reposnse PM,

In fact, do a 180. Act as if you couldn't care less if she was there or not. You will NOT be thinking of her on her birthday. I'd say, don't even buy her a card as this small and innocent gesture could be blown out of all proportions by the pursued party. In fact, don't acknowledge her birthday in any way, no 'Happy Birthday' or anything. Just take Weeman out. It's Father's Day, that's all you need to think about. PULL WAY BACK!

I will acknowledge her birthday PM because that's who I am. I'll be getting her a present and a card from Wee Man anyway so I can't just ignore the fact. It will only be an ordinary card she gets from me without any reference to the fact she's my W or any love and kisses in the inside. I will take your advice on not asking her what she's doing or showing any interest in that fact though. I'll wish her a happy birthday because I'm a polite person and I'd do the same for anyone. That is going to be the last time I ask her out though.

One thing from my visit last night which could be positive is that when I told her that I'd come past at the same time tomorrow night (about 6pm) she told me that I could come earlier if I wanted. As for the walking, she has been doing a lot of walking lately when she doesn't have Wee Man so she'll just be seeing me there as an opportunity to continue what she's been doing anyway. I don't honestly think it's a reflection on her feelings towards me.

What is your gut feeling? Why do you think she doesn't want you to see him so much? Because SHE doesn't want to see you so often? Because she thinks you will reduce your child support payments? What do you think her arguments are and plan a verbal reason when the subject comes up.

My gut feeling? I think she doesn't want me to see Wee Man more often because it means she'll see him less often. That's how I honestly see it. She's not looking forward to spending 4 nights without him this weekend and I believe it's genuinely because she's going to miss him so much. She even made a comment last night about her walking by saying that she likes to go out and walk a lot when he's not there because she hates being in the house without him. As for my visitation rights, I know it has to be in the best interests of Wee Man whatever we decide. Me having 50% of the time when I'm working full time would not be fair on him. At the moment I think we are working it fairly. It's just the time I'm having taken away because of this weekend is getting to me.

I'm also beginning to get the impression that she may feel as though she's missing out by not being at the birthday party with me and Wee Man this weekend. A feeling I'm only too used to after feeling left out during her family gatherings. This can only be a good thing as it is going to make her start to see that the grass isn't greener.

We can but hope.

Kev

[PositivelyMommy]

Kev, I understand why you would want to give her a card and a small present. I did the same thing. Though when you give it to her, don't project, puppydog eyes and sad little smile as if to say that you really miss her. Do it with a smile and say it's from Weeman. Hopefully this will take away any of the pursuing vibes of the gift.

Visitations, if you think it's fair then it's gotta be this way. But only if you believe in your heart that it is fair. I don't want to see you get resentful of your W later on. That's what you may want to watch out for.

[Can it work]

I've told my W before that I want visitation to change when Wee Man starts going to nursery and school. There's no reason I can't have him more often then in my opinion. That's a while away though.

Kev

[Can it work]

Well, it's not a good morning this morning. my W and I had a bit of a disagreement last night regarding Wee Man.

I was supposed to go down to spend time with him last night since I'd given up my nights this week prior to taking him away this weekend. Anyway, when I got home from work my W texted me to ask if it would be ok for me to come down to her parents house to spend time with him because they stayed there last night. Her brother had come home so she was wanting to spend time with them. I told her it wouldn't be a problem. I thought it would be a good opportunity to catch up with her family too so was looking forward to it.

Anyway, when I arrived down there I got about 5 minutes to play with Wee Man when my W suggested he was ready for his bath. Not a problem. I took him through the house and thoroughly enjoyed a fun bath time. When I got him out of the bath though, my MIL was just serving up dinner and I pretty much got the impression that I was no longer welcome. The fact my W apologised for the visit being so short gave me a clue! So I left after getting to spend next to no time with Wee Man.

When I got home I made a decision. I shouldn't be having to give up so much time with my son just because I'm taking him away. When we initially separated, my W and I agreed on the visitation arrangements but both said I could get him extra time when I had holidays from work. She seems to have forgotten that by taking away my Tueday and Wednesday nights before and after my weekend away. It actually works out that I'm getting him one night less over the two weeks either side of this weekend. That was fine when I thought I'd be getting to spend the whole evening with him on the nights we agreed. Last night changed that though. I texted her to tell her that I wanted him to stay with me until Wednesday next week because I'm off work until then. Needless to say, she wasn't in any kind of agreement. Her arguments were completely weak too. She argued that it wasn't fair that he'd be spending 5 nights away from her. I replied that he has 5 nights away from me every second week! No comeback. I also suggested that she needs to get used to this because I will be taking him away again and it won't always just be for a long weekend. Her response to that was basically, 'You think you're taking him away again? Says who?'. Now I don't know about anyone else, but to me that seems like a threat of depriving me of time with Wee Man. Still, I kept calm and didn't rise to it. Anyway, after asking her exactly what she meant by that comment I got a text back telling me she was too busy to discuss it and that she'd talk to me about it tomorrow.

So, tonight could be an interesting discussion and I don't know how I'm going to cope with it. I'm very aware that I can't continue to let her get her own way with Wee Man every time but I'm also so weary about driving a further wedge between us. If it came down to a choice, I'd pick Wee Man every time but I'd rather hold out in the hope that I could still have a complete family. I've been enabling her to get her own way too often since she left for fear of her hating me but I know I need to be strong this time. She even had the gall to suggest that this wasn't about me, it was about what's best for Wee Man! I asked what harm did she envisage him spending one extra night with his dad doing?

Any ideas on how best to proceed? I'm very nervous that I'm severely going to mess up my R with my W tonight by saying the wrong thing. Please help.

Kev

[PositivelyMommy]

Kev,

You know my opinion in regards to co-parenting. I always like to see the dad get involved more. The fact that you WANT to spend time with your son is a huge plus. So you need to ask yourself. Why is so adverse to you spending more time with him.

I know I've asked this question before but I'd like you to really get inside your W's head and think abt it. Of course she misses her son but what else? Why would she get SO upset?

Is it because the house is too quiet without him? Is it because it makes her think she made the wrong decision in leaving you because she can't have her son as much? Is it because it's a power struggle between the two of you and your little son is the pawn? Just a few possibilities here, you may be able to think of some more.

Whatever the reason, it's best if you can get to the bottom of it and handle it diplomatically. It's not in Weeman's best interest for you two to be fighting over him.

You need your time with him and she needs to realize that. It's a reality of her decision to leave you. One of many consequences. Now, I know you don't want to burn bridges but many on these boards say that the moment you start standing up for yourself, you will win respect from you Spouse and some self-respect as well. You can do it in such a way that is direct but non-confrontational.

These custody issues need to get ironed out sooner or later. It's a learning curve at the moment, in the grand scheme of things, this is just the beginning. In future, you need to think about who drops him off and picks him up from school. Who goes to his music shows, his graduation, his games. Who can attend him wedding etc.

It's best to start working in such a way that is friendly because you don't want to set a bad pattern and that includes bending to her will every single time.

Hope that helps.

[MsMelancoly]

Again PM, great advise & good food for thought!!

First thing that popped into my head was power struggle. Kev, is your W used to getting her own way? Compramising & letting go of some control is very difficult for some people.

Good luck & stay strong!!!

[Can it work]

Thanks PM,

Your words are as wise as ever. I honestly think the fact that she misses Wee Man so much is the reason she's so against me having him more. She uses the excuse that he's not used to being away from her for so long. I guess in a way it could be a bit of a power struggle too. In the eyes of the Child Support Agency here in the UK, she's seen as his primary carer for the purposes of who pays what in the way of child support. She seems to think that the title 'primary carer' gives her more rights over Wee Man than me though. That really isn't the case and she's being completely naive about it. We both have equal say in the upbringing of our child by Scottish Law but unfortunately, because she haves him more than I do, she can restrict how often I see him and the only way I'll be able to stop her is by going through the courts. That's something I want to avoid at all costs.

I've arranged for her to come over tonight for a visit so we can discuss it properly but I know how she is. She's very stubborn and is unlikely to back down when she's made her mind up. I'm more than willing to come to an amicable, friendly solution but I just can't see the same from her. Hopefully she'll surprise me though. I guess I'll find out tonight.

I know that in a way I'm acting out of my own desires to see my son and it should always be about what's best for him. I genuinely believe that spending more time with his dad will be good for him and I have to try and convince her of that. It's as if she believes that I'm trying to take him away from her and that's why she gets so defensive. It seems like a no-win situation sometimes.

Kev

[Can it work]

Just saw you'd sent me a post too MsM. Thank you for the support. You'll see from my reply to PM's post that I'm in full agreement with you about the power struggle. She is very much used to getting her own way. She got it the entire time we were together and most of her life she stayed with her parents too. It is indeed going to be hard for her to let go and I'm not sure at all how I'm going to achieve that without pi$$ing her off. That's why I called it a no-win situation. I either give up on getting my son as much as I'd want or I lose my W to hatred. Not a decision I'm looking forward to.

Kev