When I read your post, I thought that it was an honest mistake that probably happens a lot in the beginning of these situations. I would say be honest and state up front that you want to collaborate and communicate, not argue or cause conflict. If you are honest and clearly state your true intentions, then her reactions should be reasonable.
If her reaction is unreasonable, stay calm and loving, and reiterate your intentions. If she is still unreasonable, you will then be confident that it is her issue to recognize and examine.
I should note that I haven't read the entire history of your threads, so please forgive me if my advice is off because it doesn't consider an important detail.
IMO that is the crux of the issue between the WAS and LBS. The WAS expects a certain kind of reaction from the LBS as that is how things always used to be. But now all of a sudden they arent getting it and they dont know how to operate in this new dynamic so they will do all they can do to try and pull you back in so they can operate with the LBS in a way that is familiar to them. Its unhealthy but sort of the natural way people respond... do what you know. And right now your W still sees you as somebody she cant communicate with (although, IMO, the communication issues seem to be about equal on her part).
The rude, bossy and dictative tone is not acceptable and there are ways to let her know it wont be tolerated without creating conflict or more ill feelings. This is where setting boundaries is key and setting boundaries is for YOU and YOUR growth, not for the WAS. And sure, the WAS will resist the boundaries for a while but tough, this period of growth is about you and your self improvement, not hers.
WAS are usually stunned that the LBS is now in "solution mode" as it is new to them. I would not feed into her jabs and keep on the path of finding solutions. IMO its important to offer solutions but be open and let her know that her input is appreciated and valued. But, it will only be appreciated and valued if she expresses it in a polite and respectful way.
Clearly you both have some work to do in the co-parenting department and sometimes it only takes on to get that ball rolling to change the dynamic. In this case that burden will fall on your shoulders but dont get off the path of finding solutions, validation, listening and offering compromise.
Its a big slap in the face when the WAS finally realizes they are no longer calling the shots with the LBS and they will fight that. So, let her fight it and you keep on your path to a better Antlers. Eventually you might see that the M you were fighting for isnt really what you want because you have grown to the point where her behavior is not appealing at all. Or, at the very least it will help with some detachement.
As soon as my H got the message loud and clear he would not dictate it all things changed. He can do what he needs and wants to do but it will no longer have any bearing on what *I* need to do.
As we all know we are free to make our own choices but what we do not have freedom from are the consequences those choices bring. The LBS learns that early on - for whatever reason the WAS is slow on the learning curve with that ideal.
You want to walk away. Fine. You want an affair. Fine. But to those actions there are consequences and one major consequence is signing your rights away to all the perks of marrige and partnership with the LBS and be treated as nothing more than a polite stranger.
Things are not that way anymore...not with me. I'm working hard, and have been...fixing some things with myself that needed fixing.
It's interesting because my 11 y/o son recently said "mom is now how you used to be, and you're now how mom used to be!"
I am in 'soltion mode'...that's a good way to put it. I ignore her jabs, and have been. I want her to know that her input is appreciated and valued. Polite and respectful...we'll see!
I don't mind being the one to get things going...and I intend to do it with finding solutions, validation, listening, and offering compromise...as you say.
I intend to get better and be better...regardless.
I guess you have truly dropped the rope...that's what I'm doing/working on.
I am fully aware of the consequences of my bad decisions and behavior from the past...I've been dealing with them in a hard way since last December. Will she be aware of the consequences of her behavior at some point?
Your last statement rings loud and true CityGirl. I want to really thank you for the help that you've given me today so far!
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
This from citygirl is pure gold, simple and obvious but sometimes still needs pointing out
"You want to walk away. Fine. You want an affair. Fine. But to those actions there are consequences and one major consequence is signing your rights away to all the perks of marrige and partnership with the LBS and be treated as nothing more than a polite stranger."
Cheers Charlie
I know what you mean! I think a lot of us learn some good things from being here on this board. I know that I do. Glad you do too!
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
Well, in reality she "could" go that long without seeing the kids but she doesnt want to. Big difference.
Its like beating a dead horse - the WAS fails to realize that walking away from a marriage means walking away from being a "full time parent" and seeing their kids each day.
Your W is the one that chose to leave the family unit therefore she chose to not include herself in things like family vacations. Because she made that choice it certainly does not mean the family vacations wont continue, they simply will no longer include her. Again, something the WAS doesnt seem to realize and once they do they pitch a fit and whine they cant go that long w/o their kids. Well, sweetie, that is what divorce is and those sorts of thoughts should have been carefully thought out when she made the decision to walk away. She cant get both and now she is pissed because her fantasty of having it all is being crushed right in front of her face. What she doesnt realize though is *she* is the one crushing it, not you. You and your kids are still a family, she is the one that chose to remove herself from that unit. Why would you and your kids proceed any different to accommodate her choices? If a summer vacation is what the family does then do it - it was her choice not to be a part of the family so what she "cant" do verses what she doesnt "want" to do really isnt your problem now is it?
I have to run to the dentist right now but will check back later. As I have learned, not every message requires an immediate response so sit on this for a while until you can formulate something that will further open the lines of communication and solutions rather than shut them down.
Yeah...I know what you mean! She can go that long without seeing them, but she just doesn't want to!
Yep...makes sense! Now we are both neither full time parents, and neither of us get to see our kids daily!
You make perfect sense...I think she was just so desperate to leave that she couldn't/didn't think about anything else other than that...at least not in depth. Will she ever realize that she is the one crushing it?
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
CityGirl...she texted me earlier today (reached out, I guess) and said..."What days exactly were you gonna take the kids on vacation this month?"
I was at work, so almost an hour later I texted her back..."June 20th thru July 2nd."
So she texted me back afterwards with this..."Are you planning on being gone that entire time? I can't go that long without seeing the kids."
Okay - I was thinking about this while in the chair at the dentist and IMO the best way to handle this is to offer her some valdiation about her feelings about not being able to see the kids for that long while still making it clear you have no intentions of changing your plans at the 11th hour.
This may need some collaborative editing but I might say something like this:
Hi Wife...
Yes, the girls and I do plan to be gone for the entire time as our reservations have been made. I certainly can understand and relate to your feelings of how much of an adjustement it will be for you not to see them for xx amount of days. Family vacations have always been such a big part of our summer so I am glad I am able to keep that tradition alive for the kids and me. Would it be helpful to you if we made it so you could see the girls while we are away? Web cams (skype... something like that) are easy to use and would give you the opportunity to talk to them "in person" each day. Of course, there is always e-mail, cell phones and texting whenever you want to say hello! I am open to other suggestions but I do feel its best to proceed with the plans I made some time ago. Thanks! Antlers
IMO that validates her feelings of being upset she wont see her girls for a while but also lets her know that you plan to keep the family unit and family traditions in tact with or without her. And, you are giving her options (skype, webcams) to be involved without her having to actually be involved passed her comfort level with you.
I have made plans for us to be gone that entire time! We have always taken big trips during the Summer. I've already made reservations. The kids had told me a couple of month's ago that they were gonna go to my wife's parents house for a couple of weeks this Summer, although my wife hasn't mentioned it to me, and I didn't have a problem with it if they did that. And I didn't think my wife would have a problem with the kids and I taking a big trip this Summer like all of us used to.
See this is an issue you will have to work out with your W and the sooner you can do it the better off you both will be as co-parents. Your kids should not be the ones telling you about the summer plans your W has made for them. And you should not be relying solely on e-mail to share your plans w/the kids with your W. I realize this is a new thing for the both of you (co-parenting) but there are other solutions... online family calenders, monthly in person meetings to discuss the children and plans and many other ways to avoid this sort of thing.
You might find that once your communication improves with your W in the area of co-parenting it might improve in other areas. Of course, you will have to carry the burden of doing most of the work for a good long while but in the long run, even if you do divorce, it will be best for your kids.
Thanks for coming back and helping out. Really thoughtful of you to ponder this stuff while in your dentist's chair! Thanks. I really do want to validate her feelings, and at the same time I want to continue with the vacation plans that I've made for the kids and I.
I'm open to collaborative editing! I wish some others here would jump in with their suggestions.
I really like your response CityGirl. I'll probably paraphrase it, but think I'll leave off the "I do feel it's best to proceed with the plans that I made some time ago" because she already knows that...and since I'll say at the beginning that "we do plan to be gone the entire time as our reservations have been made." Some sage here made a recent statement about saying things once...and leave it at that. What do you think?
I think it validates her feelings too, but also says that we intend to keep on doing the vacations like we always have...with or without her...as you say. And I don't mind her being involved within her comfort level...and mine!
The kids didn't say anything about my wife finalizing anything...they just mentioned that it was talked about. I'm detatching right now; I'm dark, and I'm dropping the rope. This space helps me to detatch. That's one reason why there is no communication right now, except concerning the kids.. And even then, it's very minimal. That's the way she wants it too! It'll probably/hopefully get better as more time passes.
I would welcome an improvement in communication in any areas! I don't mind doing the brunt of the work for a long time. I sure appreciate your help so far CityGirl...Thank You!
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
Here's my stab at your response for what it's worth:
Hi Wife...
Yes, the girls and I will be gone during that time as our reservations have been made. I think I understand how you are feeling, as I sure miss the girls as well when we're apart. I do think it's important for us to maintain normal activities, like family trips, etc. for the girls' sake and though it's not the ideal way we'd like to spend the vacation, I'm looking forward to getting away.
I have a couple ideas as far as maintaining contact. Would it be helpful to you if we made it so you could see the girls while we are away? Web cams (skype... something like that) are easy to use and would give you the opportunity to talk to them "in person" each day. Of course, there is always e-mail, cell phones and texting whenever you want to say hello! I am open to other suggestions but I do need to proceed with the plans I made some time ago. Thanks! Antlers
Ok folks...here is a draft of the response that I plan on sending later on tonight...
"Hi Wife,
Yes, the kids and I do plan to be gone during that time as our reservations have been made. I can certainly understand and relate to your feelings of how much of an adjustment it will be for you to not see them for 12 days. I'm sure I would feel the same if the situation were reversed. I think I understand how you're feeling, as I sure miss our kids as well when we're apart. Family vacations have always been such a big part of our Summer so I am glad I am able to keep that tradition alive for our kids and I. I do think it's important for us to maintain normal activities, like family trips, etc. for the kids' sake...and though it's not the ideal way we'd like to spend the vacation, I'm looking forward to getting away...and so are they. Would it be helpful to you if we made it so you could also communicate with the kids by E-mail while we are away? It would give you another opportunity to communicate with them while we're gone. Of course there is always cell phones and texting whenever you want to say 'hello'! I'm open to other suggestions too! I will always work with you in good faith. Thank You.
Antlers
Well...what do you think?
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
a little long-winded, a tad patronizing and a tiny bit of "you're the one who caused this" ended with a bit of "business" sounding lingo. ("good faith")...
I think it could be more down to earth and straightforward.
I like it... but of course, I can be long-winded as well. It's sounding pretty good to me! Maybe cut out the 'good faith' biz.. A&K is right, that sounds a little corporate.
