The weekend was another with no ML. He was "sick" on Friday and Saturday. Sunday we had a huge picnic to run at Church, so I was totally wiped out, as was he. It is a given that there will not be any ML on a weekenight, so I am SOL until at least next weekend. We have an appt with the MC, but not until the 22nd. He made the appt, and I am not sure how she got him in the week he called when he went on his own, but the first available appt was a nearly month away when he called again. I am feeling like everything has to just be put on hold until then. It's a long time to be put on hold. It feels like he is comfortably back in that place where everything is fine just as it is, we have no problems, and I am happy happy happy even though my husband doesn't want to ML to me.
Though weekday sex doesn't seem likely, could you work in a "gentle push" as a reminder that this isn't going to fizzle out for you? Why not plant a sexy kiss on him when he comes home from work tonight? Or send him a romantic text?
Lucky- You are so encouraging! A sexy kiss sounds like a lot of fun!
He has specifically told me that weeknight sex is not an option. He says he is just too tired from work. So, I know that nothing is going to happen until the weekend, when we have a BBQ planned at our home. I know that will make another night of I'm too tired. Basically, we ML on May 30th, and he will not even think about it again until at least a month has gone by. It's only been a bit over a week, and I'm already getting anxious...I need to GAL...
GALing in our types of situations works for our own happiness and sense of self worth. I don't believe that it will necessarily draw him closer to you, though it may cause him to admire you even more than he already does.
Intimacy has to be worked at day in and day out. Don't just wait until the weekend to be flirty or romantic. Keep planting the idea in his head. You are a sexual being and you intend to have a sex life!
I feel a little stuck in that area. It seems to me that being flirty or romantic when he is not interested would increase my feelings of being rejected, make me look foolish, and just put pressure on him.
But I took your advise to heart, and yesterday I had my hair and make up done and had a cute outfit on when he got home (well ya know, a pair of shorts and a cute t-shirt, it's hot and I got kids to take care of and dishes to wash and laundry to do! There's really not a lot of super cute outfits going on, but it wasn't ugly or sloppy...)
OK, so what else can I do? Any specific reference to sex makes him pretty uncomfortable, so I think a sexy text or e mail would not be so good. He does not notice provocative clothing at all. (Seriously, I could put my boobs on my face and he wouldn't notice...) We are really in that place of him setting the pace for our sex life. I am not sure how to express myself, and I am kinda "stuck". I have forgotten how to be flirty. Please give me some direction here!
And then what do I do when he starts talking about how tired he is, his headache, etc? I am trying very hard not to get too sad, so how do I put myself out there, get rejected, and not get hurt (or at least not let it show?)
I know EXACTLY what you are feeling. I spent 8 years "not wanting to want" (Schnarch) in order to protect myself from rejection. I would wear sexy things and work out like crazy, and sit in my corner wishing that he would notice me and want me. I found that everyone noticed me but him, and nothing ever changed. I understand that this phase is crushing.
It came to a head for me and I just had to really spell it out for him. He had to know what is at stake. He had to know that our SSM was going to destroy our family and leave our son with a broken home. It took a long time for my H to get it, to understand, but once I really spelled out that I absolutely cannot live without intimacy, being desired, making love... the switch flipped. He finally got it, and he has changed in that area completely. He is more attentive and he verbalizes when he likes what he sees. We ML at least once a week. He tells me that I'm sexy, and I'm able to grab him when I want to as well without that horrible rejection. He now smiles when I advance because he knows that I want HIM. It isn't just that I need him to want ME (though, that is certainly a part of it too.)
One thing my H said when I started my "gentle push" campaign (which lasted a couple months before the extreme "spell it out" discussion) is that he thought that *I* didn't want HIM all those years because I was so withdrawn and because I seemed just fine with the way things were (even though I blew up about every 2 months and would then immediately recoil and go back to waiting for him to make a move.) I had to explain what I thought was behind all of that (self protection, "good girl" stuff that makes me need to be pursued...) He just didn't know, wasn't aware enough to even think about it, and he needed me to lead him to that awareness. It wasn't going to magically happen on its own.
So. You have to decide how important this is to you. If it is important enough (and I know it is,) you will muster up the courage to put yourself out there to connect with him, come what may. You will show him what you absolutely need in your life.
You can spend a lifetime avoiding the discomfort of facing your intimacy issues with your H. And live mediocrily ever after. For me, the angst was too great to avoid the discomfort.
It's up to you to shake it up. He is comfortable. You are not.
I could babble on forever... So I'll stop here and let you chew on these thoughts a bit. I look forward to working with you more on this.
Don't be afraid, Lala. You know what you want and you must value yourself enough to ask for it.
Could you please tell me more about the needing to be pursued? That is very much how I feel. It seems that if I did anything to initiate, it would just be annoying to him. He would probably not say no (or maybe he would?), but he would feel pressured and it would be pity sex. yuck. Who wants that? And I do want to be pursued a little. The feeling desirable is almost as good as the orgasm. Do I need to just give up hoping for that?
I have more to ask, but this is enough for now, I guess,
Though many women I know want to be pursued, I'm not going to speak for anyone but myself.
I think that both my H and I need to feel pursued, wanted, and chosen by each other. I think I spent all those years waiting and waiting for a number of reasons:
-Though I've had a very strong libido from an early age, my traditional Italian Catholic upbringing required that I never act like a "whore," and only a whore would pursue a man for sex. (I'm working through this issue, but it is definitely a part of my make-up and affects how I perceive myself as well as others.) A girl who is horny but repressed has no where to go, so it is up to a man to come along and want to bother breaking down those walls and "take" her against her "pretend" will. Not sure if that makes sense, but I think this is why I feel most satisfied when a man is more dominant with me.
-My life isn't free of sex-related shame, so I suspect that a part of me was avoiding intimacy because it was "nothing but trouble" as my Mother said it would be. This is probably why I chose my LD husband in the first place. He was safe and kind and sweet and gentle, and he was always on my side and supportive of me as I am, no matter what. So, I felt safe with him, and hoped that he would eventually break out of his sexual "problem." (Yes, I thought it was a problem and was sure that no human being would ever want to go without sex. Since then, I've learned that some people do, in fact, just don't want it that much due to hormone levels or what have you.)
-Early on in our R, my H would get really annoyed with me when I would initiate or want more after one round. It was so perplexing to me... Not only was he turning me down, but he was doing so as if something was wrong with me for wanting him. Now I know that his reaction wasn't about me. It was about HIM and his mental and emotional discomfort with intimacy and sex. I didn't know how to handle the issue. I would talk with him about it, and he would state that he wanted a sex life with me. I would have hope, and would begin waiting, and nothing. It didn't take long for me to vow to myself that I would never ever initiate again because I just couldn't stomach the horrible rejection. So I would keep it bottled up, waiting and waiting, until my fuse grew short and then I would blow up/retreat/wait all over again. Because I would retreat and wait after each discussion, I trained him to just endure my rants and then breathe a sigh of relief when I would retreat and then he'd be comfy all over again. For the most part, he was only uncomfortable when I confronted the issue. I was uncomfortable all the time.
I'm sure there are more factors, but these are the major ones that are top of mind.
It took me reading these boards and several books to feel confident and fearless about pushing the issue more. He had proven to me over and over again that he wasn't going to be the one who forced change. It had to be me.
As uncomfortable and scary as it was, I had to force myself to wear sexier things, make more eye contact with H, tell him when he looked hot, dare to cozy up to him and initiate a passionate kiss. I knew that I had to risk rejection in order to demonstrate that I love him, that I want him, and that intimacy and sex were going to be a part of our lives. I was (and am) determined, on a very important mission, and he knew it.
I felt uncomfortable at first with flirtation, because I felt fat and so unwanted by him. This forum helped me cheer myself on so that I could work my self-esteem up to try different things. It was not easy, but Scharch explains the concept of pushing yourself outside of your comfort zone (within reason so that you remain authentic to who you are) until you eventually find comfort there. It is so true. I still have to do that strip tease that DQ kept prodding me to do (still terrifying!!)
Since the switch flipped for my H, I don't have to think too hard about what I can try on any given night. He is receptive to me now, so I'm not afraid to act on impulses. He is also flirtatious with me now and is showing more signs of being my man rather than my best friend and roommate... if that makes sense.
Oh, I am just so frustrated...Earlier in the week, he said we would ML on Sat, but on Sat, he said he was too tired. We had taken the kids out early in the day, and I could really believe he was tired. I said it was fine, and it was, though I did feel a liitle bad about it. I guess I was a bit angry, but really not overly so, and I didn't say anything to him about it, nor did I pout or give him the silent treatment or anything. Really. I swear.
So on Sunday, we had a good day, and on Sunday night, I guess he knew he needed to put out. (That's how it felt to me.) He did some great things. He did not ask me if I wanted to ML, he just kissed me and touched me. That was great!!! When we were done, he did not start talking about anything else, but was just quiet. I would love to get to the point of some sweet pillow talk, but saying nothing is better than bringing up the kids or our mothers, or whatever. So that was better too.
But he was just SO not into it. He was there, but just not there. All the parts worked, and the deed was done. I guess I should be grateful for that, but I want more. So now I am feeling kinda awful. I hate pity sex/duty sex. It feels worse than nothing at all. This is so frustrating! And I really feel bad for him. I am asking him not just to do something he's not interested in, but to LIKE it. That just doesn't seem fair, but here I am, starving for that thing he's not that interested in. I just don't understand. How could a person just not be interested? And now, it's become such an issue, that it is totally uncomfortable even when it does happen.
We have a MC appt on Thursday. I am really hoping that it will help.
Your H is aware and on board, and that is a blessing.
In the beginning of your SSM recovery, he IS going to be forcing himself to rise to the occasion, and it isn't going to feel the way you want it to feel right away. It may take time for him to build up momentum, and go through quite a few rounds (weekends, likely) of forcing himself to take action. Once he gets in a natural groove, it is just going to happen because he might start to want it more, because he will see how happy it makes you, and because he will see the overall positive changes in the marriage.
Until things get going, you are going to have to be patient and make the best of what he is able to give.
If he is truly uninterested and not enjoying himself at all, then I would shut it down and tell him that you would rather wait until he is more in the mood. You shouldn't have to endure a miserable experience, and he should know that you won't accept it that way.
He is trying, and that is a beautiful thing! He's going to need some time to practice pushing himself out of his comfort zone until he feels comfortable in this new place.
Are you still reading? Have you done any exploration with regard to your need to be pursued? Have you thought about pushing yourself out of the comfort zone a bit with regard to flirtation and showing him that you want him?
He is learning what you want by how you behave. If you want a fun and flirtatious relationship with your husband, I would recommend being fun and flirtatious in your daily life. Don't just stay inside yourself and wait for him to flounder and figure it out all by himself.
Best, Lucky
P.S. Do you two have date nights? My H and I try to have at least 2 per month, and it really helps keep us focused on us.
