Don't Let Them Eat Cake

[glamgirl]

IL none of this is easy. My h has been gone for almost 3 years now. He moved out. Not my choice. He still says I threw him out. I see how he came to that conclusion and now uses it against me, so be careful with that if your end result is to reconcile.

You do want to be the greener grass. Don't give ow any amunition. Good luck and fasten your seat belt it's going to be a long bumpy ride.

[In Limbo]

Dawn,

It's SO interesting that you mention Charlyne because I discovered her about a month ago and have been getting the daily devotionals since. I'd never heard of her and just sort of stumbled onto their site.

I've thought about the DB coaches and the issue is not that I can't afford it but more how do I pay for it without H finding out and looking into DB (our finances are not separate). Maybe I could use my credit card I usually use only for work. Funny, H sneaks around trying to figure out how to pay for things for OW without me knowing and I'm having to sneak around to pay for a DB coach. Sort of sums up a lot of the difference between MLCer and LBS.

BTW, you'll notice I tend to be long winded too so we make a good pair in that regard. I noticed you were with your H 23 years. We've been together 22, so almost the same length. I know loss of M hurts no matter the length, but when you've basically grown up with someone and all your adult memories include them it seems to make it even more challenging to detach. What do you think?

Detaching is the hardest part for me, so I'll certainly check out the article you referenced. I have news about events last night that will challenge detaching even more but will post them in my next post, so stay tuned!

Take care, hang in there and have a wonderful Sunday!

[In Limbo]

Interesting and unexpected turn of events last night. H told me that he does not plan to leave, does not plan to move to the basement because he plans on keeping the house. He said he can afford to keep it and I can't, so why should he leave. Said I could leave, I could move to the guest room or basement but he was not. Of course I have no plans of leaving and told him that. When he asked why he should leave rather than me I did tell him that he's the one who wants out of the relationship, not me so he should go. H doesn't manage the finances, so he doesn't realize that he could NOT really afford the house, especially after paying child support. I don't think he has a lawyer or he would know that. So I'm not sure why he's really taking this stand. He's all about status symbols, so that may be part of it. He doesn't want to leave our beautiful home and "stoop down" to living in an apartment. So, I'm not sure what to do at this point. He's not planning on going and to my knowledge making no effort to make anything happen. Typical MLC?

Confession time...when this all came down late last night, I was tired and PMSing and I didn't handle it very well. So now I've got to get back to DBing to try to rebuild my self-respect. At this point I'm not even so worried about H and what he thinks. It's more about me being able to respect myself and detach from H and this messed up sitch we're living.

H kept going back into the past last night when talking about R. He only had two complaints from the present and his biggest one was that I never answer my cell phone. My job provides a phone and it's bad about missing calls (not ringing then a message or missed call pops up). He wants me to answer every call immediately. He gets furious when I don't and then if I call him back, he won't answer. Childish! He even told me to get a phone that we'll pay for, just so he can be sure that I'll answer. Yet he doesn't have to always answer his phone. Controlling, no? So, the question is...do I continue to try to answer the phone every time he calls? Or is this part of the MLCer pushing back when LBS detaches (even though I haven't intentionally not answered my phone, it's just turned out that way b/c of technilogical issues).

Anyone have any thoughts on this and on the "I'm not leaving, you leave" stand?

[peacetoday]

Just my opinion on your last post
I do not know your full situation

I would see a L and just get the facts about house and finances ect
I would not tell H that I saw a L
you probably have rights

Im not sure if you asked hime to leave?
peace

[job]

I wouldn't leave my home, nor would I give up the Master Bedroom. If he wants his independence as much as it appears, he has his choice of other bedrooms and sofas to call his own. He is the one that has the issues right now, not you, so do not be so accommodating when it comes to the sleeping arrangements or anything else for that matter. Protect yourself and your assets.

As for answering the phone every time he calls....let it ring. Pick it up if it's convenient for you to do so, otherwise, it can go to voice mail. Controlling? Yes. Also, he wants to know where you are when he calls. Why? Well, we can all guess about that one.....they just do this to ensure that you are not following them, etc.

Peace gave you excellent advice...seek the counsel of a good lawyer, but do not share this information with him. In fact, the less you share w/him right now the better. Learn to do things for yourself and just leave him be. You cannot rationalize w/an emotional person. For now, treat him as a room mate and nothing more.

[Concerned_Listener]

Confession time...when this all came down late last night, I was tired and PMSing and I didn't handle it very well. So now I've got to get back to DBing to try to rebuild my self-respect. At this point I'm not even so worried about H and what he thinks. It's more about me being able to respect myself and detach from H and this messed up sitch we're living.

He wants me to answer every call immediately. He gets furious when I don't and then if I call him back, he won't answer. Childish! He even told me to get a phone that we'll pay for, just so he can be sure that I'll answer. Yet he doesn't have to always answer his phone. Controlling, no? So, the question is...do I continue to try to answer the phone every time he calls?

Anyone have any thoughts on this and on the "I'm not leaving, you leave" stand?

IL,
I track your situation as I also have a live-in spouse who has yet to work on her issues, and is probably MLC to some extent.

How are you at setting boundaries? Most LBS's it seems need to improve upon in this area (I know I do).

I'm currently going with the idea that my priority is to speak up and enforce all the boundaries that I need to first before I can relax and enjoy the R with my W. This doesn't mean that I have control over everything, just that I speak up when I need to versus avoid or tolerate some behavior.

I'm borrowing this line of thinking from Cesar Millan's dog training book, of all places. He believes that a healthy R between a dog owner and dog begins with the owner first enforcing boundaries before granting affection.

I notice if I don't speak up about something, I build resentment, and then it taints all of our time together, which is counterproductive.

I've worked hard at GAL, but in honesty have avoided boundary-setting a great deal. Since I'm not pursuing D, and my W lives at home, boundary-setting practice is essential.

As far as answering the phone every time he calls, you decide what you can live with. It's your time. Your feelings will guide you.

As far as moving out because he demands it, it's your call. What do you want? I assume you want to stay. It would be interesting to hear what a lawyer would say.

You're allowed to have emotional reactions to him. It's what you do with them that matters. As long as you don't exchange tit for tat, or be passive-aggressive, you're fine. You don't have to be graceful under pressure all the time. You're allowed to be human. If you said something you regret, you can apologize to him.

CL

[In Limbo]

Peace,

I have not directly asked him to leave. All along since bomb, he has been the one that has said he wanted to move out. For a while he was staying away from the home during the week to try to "get his head straight." Then 3-4 weeks ago he just stopped and started staying home all the time. At MC, he said it was because he has decided he wants to move out. I have told him that if he has decided that he does not want to work at the R or to be married to me, then he should go.

I agree that I need to protect myself. I do think I'm in a good position from the research I've done so far. But I probably should do more.

Tks and take care!

[In Limbo]

Snodderly,

I have absolutely no plans to leave my home. I am the 99% caregiver for our children and would never uproot them unless we were in danger. As for the master bedroom, I have no plans to leave that either. I've made that mistake before and don't plan to do so now. He is the one that wants to leave, so he should be the one to do so.

I'm not sure how to seek advice from a lawyer without him knowing since our finances are still joint. May need to save some $ up on the sly in my own account....

I've read a lot of your posts and appreciate your input. Take care!

[In Limbo]

Concerned,

How am I about setting boundaries? Mmmmmm.......honestly it's one of the things I stink at the most. Not just now, but always, especially with H. I've always done too much for him, accommodated too much, let him make all the choices, took on responsibility for his stuff, etc, etc. I find it even harder now to set boundaries because I'm not sure what they should be, how to discuss them w/o discussing R, etc. Also, a lot of the boundaries I want to set are actually things I could never enforce (like don't communicate with OW when you're with me). Or they are boundaries that really are more about me not detaching (like tell me if you will be home later than normal so I don't worry). So I need to reflect some more on this. I've been struggling with this alot over the past few months. What types of boundaries have you been able to successfully enforce in your sitch?

I'm not caught up on your sitch, so I'll have to pop over and check it out. It's both depressing and comforting to read how many people are living through this craziness.

H took the boys to a movie this afternoon and asked me along. Just as the movie was about to start, he suddenly had to get up to "go to the restroom" and was gone a bit longer than usual. I've suspected that when he is with me these days, he often uses the RR as a time to go text OW (his EA). Yep, that's what he did today at the movie. Then we come home, walk in the house and out of the blue he grabs me and hugs me like crazy. I just don't get this! That's the kind of thing that drives me bonkers. But if I pushed him away when he did that and cut off all physical contact, wouldn't that be bad too? I know, I need to get rid of my fear and detach. Every time I think I am, he sucks me back in. Or I guess actually I allow myself to be sucked back in. Oy! Sometimes I feel like I'm so strong except when it comes to letting go.

Thanks for posting - it's comforting to know you're out there too!

[Concerned_Listener]

Concerned,

How am I about setting boundaries? Mmmmmm.......honestly it's one of the things I stink at the most. Not just now, but always, especially with H. I've always done too much for him, accommodated too much, let him make all the choices, took on responsibility for his stuff, etc, etc. I find it even harder now to set boundaries because I'm not sure what they should be, how to discuss them w/o discussing R, etc. Also, a lot of the boundaries I want to set are actually things I could never enforce (like don't communicate with OW when you're with me). Or they are boundaries that really are more about me not detaching (like tell me if you will be home later than normal so I don't worry). So I need to reflect some more on this. I've been struggling with this alot over the past few months. What types of boundaries have you been able to successfully enforce in your sitch?

I've suspected that when he is with me these days, he often uses the RR as a time to go text OW (his EA). Yep, that's what he did today at the movie. But if I pushed him away when he did that and cut off all physical contact, wouldn't that be bad too? I know, I need to get rid of my fear and detach. Every time I think I am, he sucks me back in. Or I guess actually I allow myself to be sucked back in. Oy! Sometimes I feel like I'm so strong except when it comes to letting go.

Thanks for posting - it's comforting to know you're out there too!

IL.
The boundary I've been successful at is protecting my own recreational time. I go out dancing and take lessons on my own without inviting my W. As long as she sleeps elsewhere, I don't want to portray to the world that we're a couple, or invest that much energy into her. I need to cultivate my own connections apart from her.

The other boundary I maintain is sleeping in a separate room. I will not sleep in the same bed with her for the same reasons. I don't think I'm invited anyway.

I turned down an opportunity to travel with her and her undefined friend to Puerto Rico, due to the amount of distance in the M.

These are boundaries meant to protect my time and space, rather than influence her behavior.

I was probably taking things too far by being distant all the time, but am now thinking that once I've said all that I need to say or do, I can relax and enjoy my W with the remaining space left (in the home). There's no point in being sullen about what's beyond my control.

You speak of fear. What are your fears?

My IC says that the LBS must be willing to lose the M, so that he/she will act fearless enough, so that essential changes can occur in the R. Easier said than done, but true I'm afraid.

I think the journey of the LBS is a journey of cultivating courage, and letting go of codependent ways. I'm still on the path. I haven't reached the mountain top yet.

I think paying attention to your feelings will be key, particularly when you feel as if you're being treated with disrespect, and you do have some freedom of choice.


CL