H just moved out, 13 months post-bomb

[naej]

Hi Dawn, just a quickie, this stood out for me

but I get stuck on the step between seeing people in an organizational venue, and actually doing something with people who seem interesting--potential friends--outside the confines of that venue...like having lunch together or something. Is that just ridiculous?

I am nodding my head b/c I have the same problem, my d just cannot understand it, she says I am so good with people and well liked and people enjoy my quirky nature etc but still I feel like I am imposing if I think of arranging a coffee date or a week end meal. I guess I feel ike week ends are family times and people are so busy etc. Excuses I guess not to put myself out there.
Maybe someone can come up with a plan or pep talk for us both.
I personally don't have and D friends except one who is 20 years younger than me and got a young family.

[Dawn of Hope]

Hey, naej, yes, I'd like to see that plan/pep talk if someone comes up with one. My skin is thicker than it used to be, but not elephantine.

Okay, here's some weirdness, and I would be interested to hear opinions on the matter: I just got this call from my friend Lynn, who is really the only person left who talks to both H and me and has successfully avoided choosing sides. I have written about her here before; she is 45, and has just passed the 20-year mark in her second M (she D her first H after several years of trying to deal with his constant cheating on her). Her current H is 15 years older than she is, and is a nice enough person, but for the last 4 years she has been in love with this other man (divorced, bisexual, and same age as her H), AND she's clearly been in MLC, which even she recognizes. OM put the brakes on--told her he had no intention of ever developing a serious R with her (or anyone) once she told him she was leaving her H for him--and has continued to give her the cold shoulder ever since, so she went slinking back to her H, and they are trying to rebuild their M, even though she is openly still in love with OM. She is also very religious, which I think is incompatible with the attachment she developed to OM, but what could I say? You know how well MLCers listen... It's been hard to talk to her for the last couple of years, because she talks a LOT, and she couldn't talk about anything other than OM for more than about 2 minutes (I kid you not). She does seem to be improving a lot now, in the last few months...she still can't have an entire conversation without mentioning OM, but at least she doesn't spend more than 5 minutes talking about him, usually. This is a vast improvement, and I'm feeling that she is losing that total self-absorption now, which makes her much more fun to talk to.

So, that's the background. Now...Lynn and her H were just in a marriage seminar last weekend, and today when I talked to her she told me that the entire weekend of the seminar, she and her H kept looking at each other and saying, "I really wish Dawn and H could be here to hear this." So, she said she knew about all the M counseling and programs and seminars and stuff we had been through, but she thought it might be time for a friend who loved both of us to sit down and see if it was possible to help us communicate. She talked about how each of us had said to her, repeatedly, things about each other along the lines of, "I just can't talk to him/her...if I try, he/she doesn't understand what I'm saying." I think that's more H's line, since I haven't tried to talk to him about OR in over 18 months, although when he brings it up, I listen and do my best to deal with his questions. Anyway, we're clearly not winning any communication prizes. So...she wants to sit down with both of us and mediate--help us communicate. I asked what H said about the prospect, and she said she wouldn't tell me until she got my response. She told me that she understands that I believe I am married to H for life, no matter what, but that is causing me to think I have an infinite amount of time to allow this situation to resolve, and in actuality, time is running out. I told her that there were things I wasn't comfortable talking to H about right now, but I was willing to participate in what she suggested...but I didn't think he would be so keen on it. Then she told me that H said he would "think about it." I was laughing to myself about that, because I figured he wouldn't want to turn her down flat (he is a pleaser type), but he wouldn't be eager to do the useless conversational dance with me again, especially with an audience. So I just said it was up to him, and left it at that. I am considering, though, since she has yammered some about "closure," telling her that I am willing as long as she approaches it with the goal of restoration of a fulfilling and loving M, not just "ending it as peacefully as possible." I'm not sure H will agree to her offer regardless, but I know what my end goal is.

Soooo...what do you all think about that?

I am still struggling tremendously with forgiveness. I KNOW how important it is--no need to tell me--but I don't know how to get there! I know several people have said that it can take a few years...well, it's been going on 2 years since the really horrible part of this began, and I'm not there (at the point of being able to forgive, that is), nor have I made any noteworthy progress in that arena lately. I feel really stuck there, even though I pray about it all the time. H said in our last conversation that he "doesn't know if he can forgive [me] for everything," which I thought was sort of ironic, considering the relative magnitude of our respective lists of sins, although I'm not claiming I didn't screw up.

Tomorrow is the 17th anniversary of our wedding day. I have been advised not to think about it, but I do sometimes. I feel sad, but not overwhelmed.

I have more to say, but have to get on with some things. I hope y'all will give me lots of feedback on this.

Peace,
Dawn

[Dawn of Hope]

Gosh, did I scare everyone away with my long post? I don't know if it will matter in the long run, but I would still like to hear opinions on this idea my friend has come up with. (Does ANYTHING matter in the long run? We're all gonna be dead and the earth will be toast some day anyway. Wow, I'm morbid today. Maybe it's the whole thing I'm experiencing today of having a wedding anniversary with a H who only contacts me when necessary and says things like "we haven't really been married for a long time," despite the lack of any legal dissolution proceedings.)

I digress. Yesterday one of the things I did was to do some major decluttering in my office, primarily in the closet (my office is a converted extra bedroom). I discovered that I had accumulated so many of the nice stationery boxes (from all the wedding invitations I work with) that when stacked one on top of the other, made a stack that was taller than I am! I also removed half a car-trunk load of packing supplies (bubble wrap and packing peanuts). I started going through some old letters that happen to be stored in there, but it wasn't making me feel good to read all of the love notes H was writing to me 20 years ago (I happened to start in a section of letters from 1988 and 1989), and I knew it would take an enormous amount of time, so I stopped and decided to spend my time on other things.

Now it's time for me to see if I can make some actual progress on my to-do list today. I seem to be doing marginally better with my procrastination bugaboo; I hope to turn that into "dramatically improved."

I'd still love to get some feedback on my prior post. Bring it on!

Peace,
Dawn

[Dawn of Hope]

I seem to have lost my audience...maybe they've all wandered out to the lobby for popcorn and chocolate.

My sleep schedule is SOOO screwed up. Saturday night I went to bed much earlier than usual (although still later than a normal person with a 9-5 job), and then woke up after a couple of hours and could NOT go back to sleep. I finally got up at dawn, and it was nice to get to church (haven't made it there in months because of my horrible sleep patterns), but then needed a 5-hour nap later. Then last night I went to bed at a normal time for me (within the 8-hour range of "normal" for me, anyway!), and took 3 hours to fall asleep. I suppose I could regulate this with sleeping pills, but I really don't want to do that if it's not necessary, and besides, they give me a headache that won't go away for at least 2 days.

Tonight a call came in on the home phone (which almost nobody calls any more except bill collectors; I'm seriously considering having it taken out and saving $50.00 a month, which would be good even though it's coming out of H's pocket). Anyway...the call was from one of H's oldest friends (since high school, and they also went to college together, where I later met them both and started dating H). This friend and his W (who have been M for over 20 years, since right after college) were a fellow childfree couple, so we hung out together a lot until they moved 1000 miles away, about 10 years ago.

Anyway...the friend was diagnosed with a rare form of brain cancer in Sept. '07, only a month before the bomb here in our house. He called H to tell him about the cancer, even before he told his parents and siblings (who live here in our area). To my knowledge, friend and H have not actually talked since then (just emailed), even though H made noises about traveling out to visit friend a few months after the bomb, when friend's chances for survival were looking pretty bleak (he is still fighting the cancer, over 1-1/2 years later, but has beat a lot of the odds already). I certainly don't think friend's cancer pushed my H into MLC--the signs were there quite a while earlier, and he had already started a sexually explicit EA w/OW at that point, even though they had never met in person--but I do think the friend's crisis contributed a bit in terms of H feeling like he was getting old and his time was running out, and he needed to "pursue happiness" regardless of the consequences.

Anyway...friend said he had called H's cell phone first (the only way I have for getting hold of H) but had to leave a message, so friend called our house (I can't help but wonder about divine intervention there). From talking to him, clearly he had NO idea about what was going on with H and me. I was cautious about what I said to him, but I got to a point at which I thought it would be dishonest not to tell him...so I gave him the gist of it. I believe he was truly shocked and appalled. He also told me that the things H has been doing don't sound at all like the H he knew (not that I think he didn't believe me).

It was nice to have someone to talk to (I'm really low on people I can truly talk to openly), even being very aware that I needed to be cautious because he is H's friend first and should be loyal to him. I told him some of what I have learned about MLC, and how I had longed (in the beginning, before I found out how useless this approach is) to call friend up and ask him to whack H upside the head and ask what in the name of all that is holy he thought he was doing! I might have even actually gone through with this if it weren't for feeling that friend had entirely enough on his plate in dealing with a rare, mostly fatal brain cancer. I guess friend hasn't had a nasty encounter with MLC yet, because he didn't seem to know more than the average person about it.

So that was the particularly interesting event for the day. Our wedding anniversary (that was Saturday) got roundly ignored by H. I'm sure he didn't forget unless MLC did a major number on that part of his brain--he never had any trouble remembering major dates before. I didn't think he would welcome my contacting him about it, so I stayed dark.

Yesterday I did a little work on my website--a seriously overdue (and overwhelming) project that I had done nothing with for over six weeks, despite my having wanted to have it up and running before the magazine with my work came out, which was...about six weeks ago. So, I'm trying, once again, to push through and get this DONE!

Time for me to wind down. If you're out there reading, grunt so I know you're still alive and following along.

Peace,
Dawn

[Silver Fox]

Hi Dawn,

I've never posted to you but I've been reading along. I don't have much time in the mornings to post so I'll return later tonight. I have a messy MLC/addicted to OW/about to be D if he gets his way sitch.

I switched over from Newcomers to MLC but don't seem to get many posts. Would love to hear from you!

I'm sorry your H ignored the anniversary. Seems typical. We did just the opposite and spent our 20th together last summer. We were both super nice and I DB'd my a$$ off. He went right back to OW the next day. I wish I'd stayed dark.

Later

[Dawn of Hope]

Hey, SF,
Thanks for posting to me! I have checked out your thread but not posted much (maybe not at all, not sure).

I really didn't expect him to acknowledge the anniversary. It was ignored last year when he was still at home, and he has been drifting even farther away since then, so no big surprise there.

I haven't spoken to him in 3 weeks, although we exchanged a series of voice mails 2 weeks ago after his car accident since he needed to come get the extra car from our house (where I still live). It's easier being dark, in general. I have soooo much work to do on myself.

My big problem these days (besides all the stuff I know I need to do to improve my life) is that I get awfully lonely. I don't mind my own company--I'm an introvert so I need my alone time anyway--but I calculated that on an average week, I spend over 97% of my time completely without human interaction, except via text on a screen (and delayed, not live, even then).

<sigh> I know God is always here for me, but sometimes I want someone with skin on.

Peace,
Dawn

[Kalni]

Hi Dawn,
regarding the question you asked about your friend mediating... I often have thought myself that I wish i had a person that I trusted to be strong enough and impartial to "take in" all the frustration, to mediate in that sense for me and H. I still havent found a victim Your friend is very courageous to offer her help and I hope she sees something hopeful in your situation.
I believe that often a third party can keep the communication meaningful and as a result effective.

I didnt understand though the closure comment? You said your goal is clear in your head and I wonder do you doubt she accepts your goal and think she is, this way, "trying to help you find closure faster?". What if your H agrees in that context, would you still be willing to do it?

I doubt he will agree unless your friend has very covnincing powers. If he is a pleaser I understand why he didnt flat out said no. My H is like that . But you never know. People on these boards surprise us often...

Stay busy and strong(what kind of job do you do btw?) Try to fix your sleep routine. It sucks away your good energy.
K

[Dawn of Hope]

Maria, thanks for posting to me! I really appreciate it. As for the closure comment, I think my friend just wants to see more peace between H and me, and even though she knows that what I want is reconciliation, she isn't dedicated to that goal--I think she sees "closure" as being almost as good. I think that she thinks maybe that's the best outcome available given the way H is thinking right now, because he doesn't seem too interested in reconciling with me. If H agrees to this "mediation" (which I'm not holding my breath waiting for--I really think he is hoping she will just forget the idea), I will tell her that's one of my ground rules--she has to be focused on helping us to reconcile, or there's no point in doing it.

To answer your question about my work, I'm a professional lettering artist (calligrapher). I do lots of weddings, which isn't as fun since all this MLC nightmare stuff started as it used to be. I like my work (I'm self-employed), but I have a hard time with the business end of it--marketing and stuff. I'm working on that part. Trying to get my website up and running, about 6 years late.

I'm doing better with my sleep in the last week. It's not something that's been better for very long, so I still have my fingers crossed, but it's a LOT better. I've been mostly going to bed by midnight and getting up by 9 a.m. or earlier, which is HUGE considering that for months I've been going to bed after dawn and sleeping until afternoon or evening. I keep records of my sleep patterns (under the concept that if you want to change something, you have to measure it), and I haven't strung together this "normal" a sleep schedule for even a short period in at least three years. So it's a matter of perspective.

I've been very weepy today. Part of it is just being upset because friends of mine had to put their 16-year-old cat to sleep, and I'm a total cat person (the friends live halfway across the country, and I never even got to meet their cat, but it still hurts). One of my three cats is 17 (came to us right after H and I got married), and the next in line is 15 (the youngest is 4), so that doesn't help.

But I was weepy even before the cat situation came up. This morning I was, for some reason, obsessing about H's A and thinking about how up until he started having sex with her, neither of us had ever had sex with anyone we weren't currently married to (that is to say, each other). I keep thinking about how I feel that he's permanently contaminated now--that circle can never be re-closed, even if we do reconcile. It's not so much a matter of the possibility of him comparing the two of us--I mean, I'm a size-4 gymnast/yogi, for heaven's sake, and I've always been pretty gung-ho about that aspect of our M, and she weighs at least twice what I do, so I can't believe he's better off with her in that respect. It's just...I don't know if I can explain it adequately, but he just seems tainted in that respect, just like our house is tainted because he brought her here. The house can be replaced, but...not his "equipment," or his memories. And...I'm here on the DB boards, so it should be no surprise that I don't believe that replacing him with someone "better" is the solution.

I know, I know...thought-stopping. I've never been very good at that. Mostly I don't think about it much, but sometimes it just overwhelms me. I am still very stuck with the anger/forgiveness issues, too (obviously).

I'm so tired...crying wears me out, and I've been doing a lot of it today. It's like a throwback to those early days after the bomb, when all I did, except during the 15 minutes a day that he was around, was to cry.

I'm struggling to figure out what to do about my health insurance. I haven't had any since H lost his job in mid-February, although he didn't tell me for sure about the lack of insurance coverage for about six weeks. He got another job in mid-April, and I _think_ he has health insurance for himself through the new job (I don't know for sure). He told me more than once throughout the process that he "thought it would be best" for me to look into getting my own health insurance independent from him. After he got the new job, he told me that because he was a contractor, he didn't have the option of getting coverage for me through his work. In fact, when he found out that I discontinued my ADs after he lost his job because I couldn't afford them without the coverage, he was upset! (My suicidal depression was one of the big issues that drove us apart in the first place...although since the bomb, he will periodically do stuff almost calculated to upset me, and then quite seriously ask if I'm going to kill myself over it.... ) My family is worried that something is going to happen to me (like a car accident or something) that runs up huge medical bills, and H will refuse to pay (even though we are still legally married, no paperwork filed), and my medical care will bankrupt them (my family).

So, I finally bit the bullet and started seriously looking into health insurance. Well, I was told (by people who should know) that if H has medical coverage, I have a right to be covered on it (so H lied...is anyone surprised??), even if the company won't pay any of the costs...and at this point, that's the only way to get immediate coverage without any exclusion of pre-existing conditions (so even if I did get independent medical coverage, it wouldn't do any good for my depression, because that would be excluded for a year by any company that would be willing to write me a policy). So the only way to get my depression covered would be to get on his policy. Of course, then someone would have to pay for it, and I don't have any money (I have about $40 to my name at the moment, overshadowed by thousands of $ in overdue bills). And of course, he is Mr. Nice Guy because he is still paying the mortgage and the utilities even though he chooses not to live here, so paying for his W's medical insurance would just be obviously ridiculous when he has an OW to spend his money on.

I'm working on increasing my income, but it takes time. (My income was below federal poverty level for one person last year--being an artist isn't exactly lucrative.) My expenses are obviously even higher since he moved out, and I had started paying for a lot of things out of my meager income anyway right before the bomb (that was almost two years ago now), so I wasn't building up any reserves. (I'm the saver in the family, he's the spender--the last time I bought any clothes was a year and a half ago, a few months after the bomb, when I had lost so much weight from the MLC diet that nothing fit any more...so I splurged on 3 pairs of jeans.) My income is very much paycheck-to-paycheck, and I'm self-employed so I don't even have regular paychecks.

Anyway...the question is (if you've managed to wade through all of that), do I break the last 3+ weeks of silence between us and contact him to see if I can get on his insurance (which would clearly be the best choice for me in terms of finances and healthcare)? I think it will be difficult for him to flat-out tell me "no," now that I'm better informed about the legalities of it, but I'm sure he has a raft of excuses he can use to avoid it. And I couldn't pay for it. But the alternative is for me to continue to go without insurance, and to mostly go without health care.

In other news, someone I know, who knows all about my sitch and isn't at all happy with H (she has been a substitute therapist for me), happens to know H's aunt and several cousins, and she told me a few days ago that she had seen them recently, and mentioned my sitch to them, and they were completely _shocked_ ...they had no idea and could hardly believe H would do anything like what he's doing. She said she couldn't believe he hadn't told them, but I said I wasn't surprised, as I think he is ashamed of his actions but won't admit that even to himself, so he certainly wouldn't want to open himself up to criticism from anyone else, so I don't think he has told very many people.

I'm a little sad and frustrated because I think I am losing many of the friends I had left even after H got custody of most of them. People don't respond to my calls or emails and after a couple of attempts, I hesitate to push it. I'm feeling kind of sorry for myself these days, and it sort of feeds into a cycle...I feel upset that people don't seem to want to be around me, which makes me depressed and complaining and pushes my self-esteem down even further, which makes people not want to be around me....ugh. I do try to be cheerful when I'm actually talking to people, and I think I mostly succeed there, but I spend most of my time alone, to the point that it's not my choice, even as an introvert. "Spend time with friends," people say. Well, what if you don't have many to begin with and those you have seem to be slipping away despite your best efforts? I seem to be having more trouble with that now than I did when I was constantly miserable and weepy and being cheerful took almost superhuman effort!

Okay, that was WAYYYYY longer than planned. If anyone made it through all of that, I'd love some input.

Peace,
Dawn

[Grace_O]

Dawn,

You could ask him about the insurance, but that's really all you can do. Is there a free clinic or something of that nature around you that you might be able to get meds through? If and when someone files, he could be required to provide you with health insurance. It's definately something you should ask for if that happens.

The friends thing can be tough. Since there are no kids perhaps there is a group that meets in your area that you all have similar interests. There are sites on the web (no, not dating sites) too. I've looked into some of these types of activities, but I have teenage D's that live with me and my time isn't always my own (umm, more like rarely).

I don't know about your friend "mediating" though. Pointedly, what good do you see coming out of it. I've got some good friends that know both of us and one with a background that could be helpful and I still wouldn't do it with them. Maybe it's just me. Sounds like your friend wants to help you stop hurting, which is very altruistic I guess, but I think her agenda would be to see you "move on" more than anything. IMO you don't need a sit down with her and him to get there. It takes time. There is no clock that's the same for any two people.

HUGS

[Dawn of Hope]

Grace, thanks for posting to me. I really appreciate it! I think at this point I'm trying to stay off the ADs, although I have my bad days (like this week). Yes, I'm a member of the local chapter of NoKidding! (group for the childfree), although I've only been to a couple of events...the first one I went to was the weekend H met OW in person for the first time and spent 4 days in a hotel with her. I suppose I just have to go out and find friends instead of waiting for it to just happen naturally (which might be never, as little as I get out of the house).

I don't actually see a lot of good coming out of the "mediation." I think you're right about my friend's agenda, and have thought that from the start. I doubt H will agree to it anyway, but I figured that regardless, I should express willingness, because I'm quite sure that he is still looking for excuses to make everything my fault, and if I refused to agree to the mediation, it would just give him a reason to claim that I am sooooo hard to deal with, and I'm closing doors to him, and blah blah MLC blah. Does that make sense? So again, just like the concept of his moving out, I am leaving the decision up to him rather than forcing my own wishes on him. I am pretty tired of the mind games, but that's part of what DBing is all about, I think.

In other news, today I moved a lot of pictures and things which were hanging/sitting around the house to a part of the house I don't often have occasion to visit. I didn't feel that I could get them out of the house entirely, but they weren't making me feel good to see them every day, so I finally reshuffled. There are still a couple of wedding pictures up, but I bundled most of that stuff--wedding pictures, engagement pictures, pictures of his family, even some pictures just of me that were taken during happier times--into the basement.

The biggest item that got the boot was the main trigger for the whole reshuffling, which was a large fine-art piece I designed and created especially for H as a Christmas gift, which took me a good week of work and research and time and thoughtful effort. It focused on his mother, who had died recently (I think her death was the trigger for his MLC going into active mode--one of the few things he took when he moved out, other than his clothes and guitars, was a picture of his mother, and her rosary, although he left other pictures of her behind). This fine-art piece was completed and given to H only about six months before he started carrying on with OW. So...as much as I was proud of what I had created, I really didn't want to look at it every day any more. It hung right next to the piano, and I practice the piano regularly because I've been taking lessons for 10 years, and looking at that artwork made me sick every time I sat down at the piano bench. So it went into the basement, along with a slew of other stuff.

I'm doing better with my sleep schedule this week...although not tonight. Time to quit, and return to tilt at windmills on another day.

Peace,
Dawn