GETTING UN'STUCK'

[robx]

A MLC believe it or not is a good thing.

WHAT?????

She is evaluating her life, you have the chance to do the same thing right now.

Are you saying that a MLC is a person taking an "evaluation" of their life??? Are you saying that Stuck should have a MLC and evaluate his life like his wife did? And it is a good thing???

All of the things she has accomplished in her life are important to her, she is however at a point in her life where she has accomplished what she first set out as goals in her life and now what's left?

She has done what she thought would take a life time to accomplish and thinks that she has nothing left to accomplish: is this all there is to life? Just because you are satisfied with the status quo doesn't mean she is or ever would be? Maybe she thinks that you require that from her and it's a very unfulfilling life she has to look forward to.

What are you talking about? What are you basing this on? Most people have set goals in life, but when we reach them, we don't decide to freak out, have an A and ruin a M and fmaily.

MLC or not, it's hard to look at life that way.

Yes, well, some folks have to go on with life, right? Depends on where your standards and values lie. Each person has the choice to make the most of their life and to be happy or miserable. They can lose themselves in a MLC and destroy an entire family, but IT IS NOT A GOOD THING AND NEVER WILL BE! How can you say that?

The OM represented a new life, a new adventure, new challenges, new everything and she wants some excitement in her life and unfortunately with the way you act, you don't offer her that much excitement: use the night of going out to dinner and watching that show as an example: you said it yourself, nothing to talk about, she never laughed, very quiet, etc. Sounds like someone who is so bored with their current life that they are slowly dying inside because of it.

So now you are blaming Stuck for his W having a MLC?? Well, then I suppose I had a right to have my EA and "crises" as well b/c you would certainly consider my H as being "boring" if you thought Stuck's night out with his W was that way. Thank you for setting me free of that guilt and putting the blame on my H. All this time I have taken responsibility for my own actions when it was his fault. I knew it was all along! I had blamed him for years for my unhappiness in our M and thought I could have done better. I especially resented him and allowed that to build into an unhealty state of mind and made me ripe for an EA when other circumstances entered our lives to add to my lonliness (which, of course, was my H's fault, too) and I found excitement with OM over the Internet and thank God b/c man was my old H one boring sucker. I felt like a million dollar baby when I was on cam with my OM and we were getting it on. Too bad my H caugt me in the act and nearly had a heart attack that night. Oh well, his bad..........as long as I know that it was okay for me to find something more satisfying and exciting in my life, then I'm good to go! Thanks to you Robx, men and women everywhere will feel free to abandon the M and go have an A and know that it doesn't hurt to throw in a MLC while they are at it. After all, you said a MLC is a good thing, right? Hey, let's all go promote having a MLC party and see how many we can get to partake. Who cares if those old boring LBS get hurt......they deserve it for not being more and showing us a great time in life!

Don't be mad Sandi.

These relationships are comprised of two people and I would never condone one person taking responsibility for all the problems (unless that person is an alcoholic, drug addict, physically abusive person, etc.).

Since there is dual responsibility in a relationship, that means that the responsibility of making it & keeping it great rest on both people involved.

As much as I can blame my wife for her actions, her PA/EA, because those are her actions. I can also blame myself for being a mouse instead of a man, exhibiting wussy, supplicating behavior and never setting boundaries for how she could treat me. Those behaviors killed the attraction in our relationship, changing myself and those behaviors made me attractive again, not just to her but to myself as well - it's like being in the "zone", you know when it's just clicking right: you're confident, you feel great, life is good because I'm making life good and I was the one who forgot that and I can't blame anyone else but me.

As far as the WAS and their affairs (PA or EA or both), those are there actions and they are responsible for them, but instead of labeling a person as a bad person, I would just call those bad decisions & bad mistakes: we all make them and the smart people are the ones that know how to learn from them and benefit from their mistakes by moving forward in a positive direction.

If I can see & understand that exhibiting unattractive behaviors kills attraction, then I understand that exhibiting attractive behaviors creates attraction.

I love these forum posts, as they can get animated and that's good, it means we're all somewhat invested in the end goal which is ultimately a great life whichever way it unfolds. How that works for me is to stop focusing on the obstacles that are in the way of achieving my goals.

Another thing I want to mention is that MLC isn't a conscious decision someone makes and says "today I'm going to start my MLC". It's a part of the natural growth process in every human being, if it manifests in a horrible & ugly way that hurts/kills relationships or if it manifests in a slightly less destructive way isn't up to anyone. We can only control our actions and when we realize that we can only control ourselves and let go of the need to control others, we experience a fair amount of freedom because of this.

Dating isn't a bad thing, I'm not going to believe it is especially when you're separated from your spouse and based on all the reading & research I've done: it's a powerful method you can employ in getting your spouse's attention when all other methods fail.

As for advocating leaving a marriage and having affairs, don't be silly, I never said anything like that and will never say anything like that. For the record, people started having EA/PA affairs long before I got wise to this site and started learning more about myself and this process.

I do however advocate picking yourself up from the ground where the WAS has left you, I'm all in favor of building confidence, rebuilding self-esteem and becoming an individual again because those are all attractive behaviors that many people lose & stop developing when they get into relationships and in the case of your spouse having an affair on you, I'm in favor of a person getting the guts to go out & date & meet new people and learn what it feels like to meet new people & develop courage to do things like this. It also communicates to your WAS that you won't sit at home waiting for them to come back from their affairs - doing this only communicates that you are pathetic & weak and validates a WAS's mindset & thought process about you. In their minds, they have top dollar value while you however aren't worth a few cents: that's their perception of you. When you increase your value and their perception of you changes, that's when things change in the relationship.

[whatdidido]

Stuck,

You asked me to stop by. YOu have a lot going on here, and I haven't read everyone's responses, but I have read yours. YOu seem to know what to do and you seem to understand just about everything going on, really. Kittyfish is the one that has said the things I agree with the most.

If she is not seeing the OM, she will take a long time for withdrawal of it....a LONG time. Meanwhile, you GAL and be a good husband and a good dad and a good friend. Improve yourself. Show confidence (not arrogance). Give her space. She will come.

But, didn't you say she is still seeing the OM? If so, this will be sooo much harder. Until the OM moves on to someone else or treats her bad, etc., she will still have those "feelings" popping up. Even if she is passed him, per se, she will be seeing this old OM every day and thinking about those feelings she had and start thinking someone ELSE is out there.

Like Kittyfish says. That hole can only be filled by Him. She needs to figure this out. Did you say you will be going to Retrouvaille? This may help and also may hook you up with some like minded couples. Support at this time is crucial. I used the DB forum here to help me along when leaving the affair. Most WAW don't have this forum, they only have you.

[robx]

[quote]
WHAT?????

When we start getting rid of pre-conceived notions & misinformation on MLC's, that's when you will see that a mid life crisis is normal part of the growth cycle.
If it's a normal part of the growth cycle, how can it be a bad thing? MLC is a part of the growth process, don't discount the fact that you're an adult and you've stopped growing physically (getting taller, developing in certain areas, etc.) that you stop growing. This is a natural process, just like transitioning from toddler to preschooler to early elementary and eventually from pre-adolescence to adolescence and early adulthood. We don't stop growing and changing at age 20.

There are several stages to the MLC, this process is necessary for growth as an adult, as such the MLC is not a bad thing.

[MrBond]

I think you mean mid-life "transition". That's the stage that everyone goes through and most go through it okay. The "crisis" is when they trash everything they have, hurt everyone they've loved, done things they've never done before. I guess that's why they call it a crisis.

[givingitmyall]

Right on stuck!

[MrBond]

robx,

Oh and I do have a question. In my sitch, I was plenty adventurous and kept my W engaged in doing different and exciting things. However she would just say no or not interested. When I asked what she wanted to do she'd say "don't know". or "up to you".

So I don't know what you mean about the "boring" part. It was her choice to not participate and it wasn't from lack of me trying to find out what she wanted to do.

Suggestions on what I did wrong in the past? Just curious from your POV.

[robx]

robx,

Oh and I do have a question. In my sitch, I was plenty adventurous and kept my W engaged in doing different and exciting things. However she would just say no or not interested. When I asked what she wanted to do she'd say "don't know". or "up to you".

So I don't know what you mean about the "boring" part. It was her choice to not participate and it wasn't from lack of me trying to find out what she wanted to do.

Suggestions on what I did wrong in the past? Just curious from your POV.

You know your wife better than we do.
When you say you did things that were exciting & adventurous, was that from your point of view only? Was she bored or uninterested because she didn't get to offer input? I know you say you asked her what she wanted to do but was this always the case especially in the beginning?

Or I'll twist this around even more, did you always ask for input from her originally in the beginning and never took the lead & initiative in this process and possibly that's why she doesn't care of seem invested?

[robx]

I think you mean mid-life "transition". That's the stage that everyone goes through and most go through it okay. The "crisis" is when they trash everything they have, hurt everyone they've loved, done things they've never done before. I guess that's why they call it a crisis.

If using your term makes you feel more comfortable, continue using it. Mid life crisis/mid life transition... same thing.
Calling it a "transition" doesn't mean it can't be a painful/destructive "transition".

Ultimately the idea is to recognize that this process induces alot of changes, many of which you may not understand, agree or approve of... they will still happen regardless.

Trying to steer her, move her in the direction you want her to go in is probably going to guarantee the opposite happens.

[robx]

robx,

Oh and I do have a question. In my sitch, I was plenty adventurous and kept my W engaged in doing different and exciting things. However she would just say no or not interested. When I asked what she wanted to do she'd say "don't know". or "up to you".

So I don't know what you mean about the "boring" part. It was her choice to not participate and it wasn't from lack of me trying to find out what she wanted to do.

Suggestions on what I did wrong in the past? Just curious from your POV.

She is finding excitement with the OM (or at least was at one point), have you ever spoken to her about what they did together and what specific things she liked about him.

Let it be known that I know discussing this OM and stuff they did together is uncomfortable, I don't envy your position just look at the end goal: knowledge is power and currently you're searching for answers.

[robx]

I'll mention a few stages and you tell me which stage your wife is in right now:

1. I guess at one point she became aware of her own mortality, that life is finite and that time was being wasted where she was. This awareness is usually triggered by the death of a family member (mom/dad), serious illness, getting older (30th or 40th birthday), etc. Something woke her up one day and she had this idea that she isn't going to be around forever and she needed to do things she hadn't done yet.

2. Being panic stricken and acting as if her life is in CRISIS and having to do different things immediately, prove to herself that her life has meaning outside the marriage & existing family. Having many regrets, thinking what could have been but wasn't because she got married & had a family and now that time is limited, she has to do things to live her life to the fullest, acting extremely selfish towards you & her family, having a really bad attitude - "it's all about me", etc.

3. After doing several things that are out of character for her, changing her appearance, losing lots of weight, working out, dressing better, tanning, shopping, going out, getting hair, makeup, mani/pedicures done regularly (none of these things are bad, let's be clear about that, but if she never did these things previously and now believes she deserves them daily/weekly), she slows down this erratic behavior and starts to act a bit more normal but still not like her usual self. She is sorting her personal life, examining options, questioning her life's direction. She may want to spend more time alone to think about her life and that includes not being around you or her family. This is the longest stage and you can't rush it.

4. Then afterwards, there is a point in her life where she has more energy, she is more positive, has more enthusiasm & respect for life. She questions/doubts herself less, she is more confident in her decisions, starts doing more things but there is less random nature associated with these things: instead of trying everything, she is being more specific but she does want something new in her life and that can include a new meaningful relationship whereas the previous stages she was having affairs to test out the waters and be with other men to experience more variety (see what she had been missing out sexually). She is settling into the new person she is becoming, she is finding herself again and feeling comfortable & good with herself and setting goals for her future which may or may not include you & your family.

5. The last stage is turning those new goals, dreams, ideas into reality. She is energetic & dedicated to her new life and grounded in reality at the same time. She knows that there is world existing outside of her current circle of influence and she wants to be part of it and part of something bigger & more meaningful. She will be less confrontational, she'll be more fun, playful and will enjoy life more now than ever before. There will be no delaying in taking care of herself & her needs, no more time wasting, she will realize life isn't just about dreaming, it's about doing. She will be more passionate about life and she will take responsibility for her own happiness because she will realize that it's her responsibility to be happy and she won't place the blame on others for being happy with herself & life in general.

These are rough, quick to the point recaps but I think you will get the idea when you read them and you will be able to realize where she is right now in her own mid life "transition"/crisis.