Hi Shannon,

You found me on another thread and asked me to take a look at your stitch. I have read each post and I am somewhat hesitant to reply.....which is not like "me" at all! Was there some particular reason you wanted me to talk to you? I consider it an honor that you came to find me. I felt badly when I saw you asking for me on your thread, but I had no idea and nobody told me, but anyway.....I am here now. I only hope that I do not say anything to make you more confused or to upset you more than you already are. If you have read very many of my posts then you probably saw where I speak fairly blunt. At times, I can get a 2x4 swinging.....but all in all, it is always with the best intentions. That is why I said I was somwhat hesitant about replying. Never-the-less.....here goes.

I don't know if I have ever met anyone on the board that I did not like (okay, maybe one...lol) or at least try to understand as best that I could. Some people click better than others and I hope that I will be one of those folks who you can "click" with and find an understanding and helpfulness in what I may say.

As you probably know, I was almost a WAW. I also think that I was in some sort of MLC, but was not exactly in mid-life as far as my age was concerned. I suppose if younger adults can have MLC, then maybe one can go past the popular concept of having a crises at "mid-life" age. Whatever the case of MLC or not.....I was certainly in a "crises" just as you have described about your H.

It is a strange thing, Shannon, but when I was reading your story and how horrible your H has treated you and your family.......I would find myself not liking him at all, and thinking what an a$$ he was! Then, I had to remind myself that those were some of the same ways that I had treated my H. The story may vary at times, but the over-all picture is familiar. The point I want to make here and now is this.....I once was there in that WAW mode and certainly having a crises (be it mid-life or not), but now I am out of the fog, out of the WAW mode, and out of that crises. So, there is always hope b/c I never thought I would have feelings for my H again. I could not stand to be in the same building as he. I thought I would get sick at the thought of him touching me or telling me he loved me. I do believe that your H is a WAS in MLC and I do believe he will come out of the fog........some day. When that day will be or how long it may take is anybody's guess. Nobody can answer that question.......especially your H. I can tell you that he is miserable and he is in denial to himself. He is in a fantasy world of his own doing. That information may be giving you a dash of hope, but the downside to that is the fact it could take years before he wakes up--or he could marry the OW before he wakes up, or do any sort of "damage" before that time comes. But "come" it will and he will be pitiful when it happens. The question is what will Shannon do with her life while he is going through his crises b/c she cannot stop this trainwreck. She can only help herself.

I read where you would ask almost the same questions over and over and I could hear the pain in your posts. The thing is.......you are or "were" trying to see him as if you were expecting him to use a "normal" thought process and to conduct himself as if he were as normal as you (or at least as normal as he use to be). That is not going to happen. I am going to say this, sweetheart, and I am not trying to see how mean and hurtful I can be b/c you have experienced enough of that, okay? Here comes a blunt point........the H you knew and was M to is no longer here on planet earth. It is as if he has died. You can see a body that reminds you of him, but that is a far as any recognition goes. As they say here on the board....it is as if a alien has snatched his body and he has been replaced by something/somebody you don't know. Guess what? He does not know who he is any longer, either. He is confused and tries to bluff his way around and convince people he is great and you are horrible and he is loving his new life. It is all garbage! He is miserable, confused, angry, hurting, bitter, resentful, and all of the other emotions that are negative. He would not have you know that.....or anybody else......therefore the reason for "games" and the split personality, the strange behavior, etc. The stress he is causing for himself is almost unbearable, but he has to get through this hell that he is in. I pray that his health does not decline and he will not take as long as some people do before his senses return and he can see and think clearly. I don't know if anyone can fully understand without actually experiencing it. I would have never been "understanding", much less patient, with my spouse if it had been him instead of me that went through it. I would have kicked him out or I would have left him in a second--if he had treated me and done to me....what I did to him. So, I am blessed that I found this board and the right people to tell it to me straight and hit me with the 2x4's to try to get the message through my fogged-up brain. There was one thing that I had in the bottom of my heart or in the back of my poor messed up brain......or somewhere......and that was a little tiny desire to want to get better. I knew I was not myself and for a good while I did not "want" to change what I had become.......it was an anwered prayer (by my family, I'm sure) that I "stumbled" across a board called Divorce Busting one night when trying to find somebody to talk to about my stitch.

The reasons behind my crises does not really matter as much as the fact that I was given the right advise, and thank God, I took it to heart and slowly (ever so slowly) begin to feel my way back through the fog of being an almost WAW in crises.

So, you are waiting for me to tell you what you can do, aren't you? I can give you suggestions and it may help, but it won't be easy and I can't promise that it will get your H back. As one person said, you may not "want" him back by the time he wakes up out of the fog.

The first thing I would tell you is that you need to go into "survival mode" ASAP. Until you can do that, he is going to be meaner and more nasty to you each time he sees you. When he looks at you and sees your pain....he is filled with guilt and anger. I know, you don't think so, but he is. He doesn't even fully realize all his own emotions at this point b/c he is in such a state of fantasy & confusion. That causes him extreme stress, conflict, turmoil and a lot of other things I could mention! B/c he can't handle all these misunderstood emotions that he is experiencing, he lashes out at you, or your mother, in anger or some other nasty way. He is in pain, but he is in complete denial and therfore he tries to hurt you (or your mother) worse than he is hurting. It may appear to you that he is successful at this, but you don't know what goes on inside of him when he departs from seeing you. You can imagine what goes on between him and the OW......but you don't really know. It may not be the bed of roses you are thinking. On the other hand, remember he is in a fantasy world and he is trying to convince himself that it is "rosey".

You ask "why" or "how" could he tell the lies he has. I believe part of the lies are due to what he is trying to tell himself. They rewrite history b/c of trying to believe their own lies. They can't deal with the truth b/c it makes them out to be the very "bad guy" in all of this, so they have to lie to make you look bad and help themselves look a bit better. It is also due to their very low self-respect/esteem. It is shot to pieces! Honey, it has never been about the OW. Don't you realize that? He turned to her b/c she made him feel important! She is a mouse who makes him feel like King Kong! Look at all the problems in his family. That would be enough to cause any sane person to go into a "crises" of some kind. I'm sure he had to be suffering from depression after all that stuff with his kids and sister and the rest. He may not even knew he had depression. Many people do not recognize it....especially men b/c many of them think depression is a sign of "weakness" in a man. So, they deny it. You were working hard at your career and gone a lot. He started out trying to support you. When his business began to fall, that was a sure sign of "failure" as a business man and family man. Not in your eyes.....but in his own. (It is hard to think like a man....yes?) Anyway, the OW was "handy" and available to him. She stroked his beat-up ego and he needed it. You hit the target when you said you walked beside him as his equal. At the point in time that his world was crashing around him......he did not want an equal in his wife b/c I think he saw that as "threatening" to his male ego. (Again, the male ego is very delicate!) I am serious when I say that. I have studied about that and it is not me trying to be offensive to the guys......it is a fact that the male ego is very sensitive. The female was always seen as the "weaker vessel" but that is refering to her physcial strength. As for the mentality of the ego status......the female is much stronger than that of the male. Now if this is your area of expertise.....I'll be embarrased. grin That is what I have studied and I found it to be fasinating and also (by way of experience with the men in my family and those I've known) I found it to be true. No offense to my friends who are men on the board. (They may get me for saying all of this!)

So.....got a little side-tracked there. Where was I? Okay, the OW fed him ego food, okay? That is exactly what my OM did for me. You would not believe what that man did fcr my self-esteem. I looked almost 15 years younger! Was he good for me? At the time, I tred to think so. But, no he was destructive to my MR. In time, we would have grew bored and tired of each other or burned and crashed some other way. He was nothing like I wanted to think he was. He was my "dream lover". He even told me one night not to build him up to be more than what he was b/c he was just an ordinary man. But I did not want ordinary......I wanted "fantastic"! I wanted magic, flirting, dating, a new life, and to experience a sexual excitment with another man. Oh, it was awful. I was awful! I had been M to the same man for 40+ years and had never been with any other man but him. My H was/is a wonderful person but I had allowed years of resentment and personal unhappiness to control my mind and fill me with depression and anxiety. I was so lonely due to other complications in our life and all of it together led me down a pathway that was almost the destruction of my M and even my family. My children were grown, but our family is extremly close and we all live near each other. My entire family knew something very wrong was going on and that I was not myself. So, see, a person in that condition cannot keep it hidden for any length of time when around those who know them well. The personality changes, the thought process, their conduct, treatment of others........and dressing and doing things like they never would have before. The person in crises feels as if they are living a dual lifestyle and it is a matter of time until most of them have to adjust in some way. There are many that go until they are "caught".....like I was......but some (like your H) has to make a choice to what he will do. I think he felt that he could not pretend any longer (in his mind) and felt that he had to get out of the M. You see, if my H had been sleeping in the same room as I was or having any physical intimacy with me.....it would have placed so much pressure on me that I would have bolted for the door and took off running. However, as it was.....he discovered my emails to the OM. When he confronted me, he told me to end the EA and I pretended to do so. But he started telling me that he loved me and he was pursuing me and doing all the "wrong" things that all LBS do. When he finally gave up trying and said he could not "make me love him".......it was a relief to me. Also, it caused me to stop and see things a little differently, but you must understand that in my particular stitch, a lot of things were working together at the same time. I can't tell about all of it right now.....too long. Anyway, it was after all of that when I found the board and it has taken a very long time with me working on "me" to get to where I am now. I only had an EA. If it had ever reached the point of a PA......I don't know what would have happened. I only know it would have been bad!

Not only is your H in a crises, but you are also. Whether you realize it or not, you have allowed him to place you in a crises mode. The fact that you have had to fight this terrible illness and face these surgeries is adding tremdous stress to your body. I don't have to tell YOU that. It hurt to read about you being in the hospital and how he treated you. I could have despised him! I wondered how on earth you could love him and why would you want such a terrible person back in your life again. Are you sure you DO LOVE him or is it more that you "use" to love the man he once was before all this happen? Maybe you aren't sure anymore. That is understandable. I personally think you need to back away from him and take care of yourself and focus on getting well...and not grow worse by staying upset over what he is doing all the time. I know, sweetie, it is easy for me to say and hard for you to do. The fact is that you are NOT GOING TO CHANGE HIM. I wish I could tell you differently, but you just can't. Just as you have to get physically well.......your H must get emotionally well. It takes time and it takes a "process", I believe, to get through that mess. It is scary for both of you, and not knowing the outcome is almost beyound your ability to think from one day to the next. So, my suggestion to you is try NOT to think about him or the "stitch" any more than you absolutely have to. You need to rest mentally and physically. I wish somebody could take on the responsibility of seeing to the exchange visits with your D......but you probably would not have it any other way....and I understand that. But, you need to regroup and heal. I'm sure your doctors have talked to you about how this is affecting you in every way. You have a very special little girl that needs you and a great mother that loves you with all her being. For their sakes as well as your own.......I am praying that you can put the worrying and freting over your H and the M--on a back burner (so to speak) and let it "wait" until you are stronger to deal with things. Now, I'm going to use a little butterfly 2x4 here and hope it won't hurt too much. You keep saying that you are focused on your D and not your H. I'm sorry sweetie, but you ARE focused on your H b/c he is what you are talking about most of the time. We talk about what we are focused on in our lives. Right? I know.....it is hard not to think about it when it is eating you up alive. And, please know that you are to feel free to come here to this board to "vent" your frustrations. That is what this is all about to a great degree. I'm just saying what I "see" in your posts.....and that's MHO.

I hope you fight to get very strong physically, but also I want you to get some strong old fashion "spunk" (as my folks would say) and be determined that you are not going to be defeated in life! You are a winner, Shannon. I know you are just by the feeling I get when reading your posts. You could not have survived what you have physcially without being a fighter and knowing you have much in life to live for.....right? Right! So, stop beating yourself up over what has happened. You ARE a good person! He is in a state of insane fantasy and stupidity.....and he can't see anything but "regrets" when he sees your changes before him.....and it ticks him off that you chose to wait until he found OW to make these great changes.....(See how wacked a WAS/MLC can be?) Know who you are, Shannon, and don't you dare let him or anybody else take that away from you. You stand tall and proud and don't try to be like the OW.......be a lady with poise and grace......and the best Shannon the world has had the good fortune to have seen. Be true to yourself, your child, and your mother. Do not compromise your self-respect, integridy, morals, faith, standards......or anything else......just to "get him back" b/c it is not worth it. Do you hear me? He is not worth that kind of compromise. You don't want to lose "Shannon" by trying so hard to get him back. I think you are a very stong & special lady, but if you allow him to infuence your thinking.......he will mess with your brain and you will be a disaster. It almost happened.....didn't it? I hope you were caught in time......I think you were!

Don't try to decide what you need to do with the rest of your life at this time. Take one day at a time and just live life and enjoy the minute by minute blessings of each day. Love those who give you part of their lives by sharing their time with you and don't think about what "could have been" or "what went wrong" with your H. We could all go nuts if we did that. Every time your mind tries to wander in that direction, put a stop on it right then and refuse to be pulled and dragged down that path. You are too good to do that to yourself......and don't allow somebody else to do it to you, either.

I am so happy to hear that you believe in God. You said you were a person of great faith, but then I read where you were feeling like you may have lost it. I may say too much at times, but I want to tell you that no matter what happens where your M and H are concerned......God does love you and He does want what is best for you and your D. However, He gave each person a free will and He will not interfer with that free will. We should be glad of that fact b/c otherwise, we would be like robots. I suppose the times we wish He would interfer is when we "want" a particular thing to happen so badly that we pray He will "make" it happen. I think I read something to the effect that you thought if God wanted your H to go back with you that he (your H) would. However, God does not "force" your H to do anything against his free will. It is hard for us to understand and accept that when we know God has the power to do anything. It is the "policy" He set up and He seldom over-rides what a person chooses to do.....except where "historical" issues are concerned b/c God is always in control of history and the future. Oh, it is hard to explain! I do know that when we don't "feel" that God is listening or that He is nearby......that is when we truly have to apply our faith. Remember what the scripture says "faith" is? We can't see it or feel it. It is an action of our soul to "believe" in what God's Word says.

Sorry, I didn't mean to deliver a sermon..... blush I am bad to do that. I am passionate about the subject. I should have just said that what God wants and what your H wants are two different things. Oh, one more thing (lol) is that God's timing and our timing is never on the same schedule. His ways and our ways are not the same. That is why is seems mysterious to us. God's part is doing the work....and our part is to simply believe Him.

I could go on for hours.....and I think I have....but I will stop for now and give your eyes and brain a rest (lol). I want you to know that I will be here to try to help in any way that I can. If you need to reach me before I get back on your thread, you can find me in the "Piecing" forum under "Sandi's Place". I will check my thread for messages. In the meantime......you find that faith of yours. I don't think you ever lost it, you just felt down and defeated. You are not defeated, okay? You are just tired and ill and need to get your stength back. Then you will have your second wind and start flying.

Please take good care and I'll check in with you tomorrow if I can.

Sandi



It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!