This is where we are having difficulty. Sexual detachment in a monogamous R is equivalent to showing no interest in sex at all. Since we are not going to go outside of the M, It really would have to mean faking disinterest in both our W and in sex in general.
Not necessarily. H took about 3 minutes for me to peak his sexual interest. I knew his libido hadn't disintegrated. But, I also knew that I might never have him again and that someone else might and could. That is a huge shift. It doesn't HAVE to be me. I am not obligated. This is tricky territory. Hopefully more men can speak on this because I don't know if you run the risk of crossing your own lines here.
It is scary but I think flirting and noticing other women can help your confidence. Truth be told, my H was out and getting so much attention from other women and likely involved in EA or PA...so, he had the upper hand there on the detachment (makes it exponentially easier obviously). I'm not sure how that works in this sitch. Can you set your sites on W AND work your mojo a little out in the world. Keep a firm boundary for yourself?
Thinker, What helped me not grab, fawn or beg for affection and intimacy was to realise it was my want at the time. It was one of my goals for sure but I knew I had to take care of all the steps in between. So I had to be a friend but I was working on having a edge. Make yourself desirable to her. Confident, TCB, great Dad, fun to be around, interested and interesting, mysterious, and loving without pressure and expectations. You are being watched. Cheers Coach
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
Looking at my own emotions and reactions, I think it is a combination of this (knowing my own wants and desires and differentiating those from needs and actions) and the discussion about social rules and social gray areas that was taking place on SP's thread.
I have an OK time if the rules say "Platonic only - just friends - no look no touch" and would obviously be perfectly happy if the rules said "Intimate Lovers", but really struggle personally with the "gray" area in the middle.
-- an opportunity for personal growth
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
But, I also knew that I might never have him again and that someone else might and could. That is a huge shift. It doesn't HAVE to be me. I am not obligated. This is tricky territory.
This is indeed tricky Aliveandkicking, because signaling this would (to me) mean my signaling that I am ending the M.
This is back to my personal challenge with gray areas.
I guess my personal paradigm has always been that I am either single and available, or with someone. Flirting was (for me) always just a way to get from the first state to the second.
The gray area in the middle was a transition state, not a long term place to be.
I've recognized the issue with this paradigm, but still have to make the change.
...again, an opportunity for personal growth
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
Thinker, Just remembered something else. If it was something I wanted, I made it a goal to get my W to initiate it. Ask me to dinner, meet somewhere, touch me etc..... Made me step up my thinking a notch and become more aware. Another thing to get more involved in "seeing" things is to become more sensual - involve all your senses and then make sure you are engaging your W using all her senses. Become more aware of smells, how things feel, tastes, sights, and sounds. Take the autopilot off. Cheers
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
Interesting how discussions on one thread move to others, then spawn thoughts in a third...
All of the discussions about being comfortable with things being gray, rather than black and white, have really helped to crystallize my understanding of the personal challenge that I face. I've talked about this before here (excuse me if it get's boring, but I am just journaling openly as things occur to me)
While in many areas of my life I relish things being a bit risky and unplanned - I love business startups and trips without fixed destinations - I absolutely fear social gray zones.
By social gray zones I mean any area of social contact where the ground rules are not clear; any social interaction where it is not clear to me how I should act and what I should do, and how others will react to that.
Call it a long standing deep embedded need for control.
It may sound sad and strange, but I don't think that I am all that different in this than quite a few other people that I know.
To me, emotionally, a social situation without groundrules feels like standing in the middle of a mine field without any idea where the mines are. You are only safe if you do nothing and stay right where you are.
This is why the great chasm of limboland is so hard for me. If you are happily married, then things are clear. If you are D'd, then things are clear. But here in the middle....?
One step...Kaboom!!
This explains to me why I am not that afraid of getting D (it would bring certainty), but am afraid of no progress.
NDS just posted an update on his sitch that described perfectly my nightmare scenario: 14 months of limbo with some improvements but no committments from his W, followed by another discovery of an EA and another bomb.
14 months of tiptoeing in the minefield followed by "Kaboom!!"
So here is my (current) central growth opportunity: - Ignore the mines. They don't really exist anyway - Embrace the gray!
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
Thinker, What helped me not grab, fawn or beg for affection and intimacy was to realise it was my want at the time. It was one of my goals for sure but I knew I had to take care of all the steps in between. So I had to be a friend but I was working on having a edge. Make yourself desirable to her. Confident, TCB, great Dad, fun to be around, interested and interesting, mysterious, and loving without pressure and expectations. You are being watched. Cheers Coach
This is what I was doing up till last week when I moved and she was gradually starting to warm up. Does any of this change during separation? How do we keep this from becoming an extended limbo as Thinker mentions below? Currently, I'm thinking I'll let her contact me and make those next moves towards friendship if she's indeed interested. Right move?
"My actions are my only true belongings. I cannot escape the consequences of my actions. My actions are the ground upon which I stand." Thich Nhat Hanh
By social gray zones I mean any area of social contact where the ground rules are not clear; any social interaction where it is not clear to me how I should act and what I should do, and how others will react to that.
This is very interesting for a number of reasons, but the one I'd like to submit for your consideration is this -- EVERY social interaction is one where it is not clear how you should act and what you should do.
Over at mindblank's thread I was discussing with her the challenge she has in detaching; she says she hasn't mojo enough to do it. In fact, she's full of mojo, she just directs it all to her work.
But when you got to work -- when you pitch a possible venture capitalist on funding a start-up -- you're putting on your Game Face, your mask, your Persona. It's all as phony as hell, but you do it because you can control it. Because you don't know exactly what to expect, but you do know how people tend, on average, to react to Thinker Guy. So you "act" like Thinker Guy.
Then, when the pitch is over, you get in your car and fire up the ray-didio and maybe jam out with yer Fender Airocaster air guitar to a little Robin Trower. And if the people whom you'd just pitched saw that, they'd laugh out loud. But they don't. And so you don't need to be Thinker Guy anymore. Now you're someone else.
So why do we that? Put those masks on? I had my Sergeant Voice. I had my Company Commander Voice. Both me. Both, strictly speaking, Not Me.
We do that because it helps us negotiate social situations where the rules are undefined.
You walk into Big Box Hardware store. You're that guy. You go to Man Clothes Discount Retailer. You're some other guy.
All you have is a reasonable expectation, a probabilistic estimate, of what the rules will be. You don't know for sure.
So it's all about The Face. Putting it on, trying it on, raising it up the flagpole and seeing who salutes it. Sometimes you're right, and you refine; sometimes you're wrong, and you recalibrate.
Even in intensely familiar social situations the rules can be hazy. Wife is in a bad mood; Mom's back hurts; Joe the Mechanic lost his job. You don't know that going in -- you gauge and judge and react and reset in real time.
I think one of the challenges we LBS's face is that it's hard -- damned hard -- to redefine / reconceptualize such familiar ground as our Marriage as "just another" space.
