Is it possible to hit yourself over the head with a 2x4? It has been a long couple of days. Sometimes it feels like I just get in to a funk from which I cannot get out of. This is added to my gnawing suspicion that there is an OM back in the picture. I would much rather know what I'm dealing with rather than having to guess.
I've been laying low trying to sort out what I want to do, not for her, but for me. I have been reading various threads all over the boards here, particularly the MCL and infidelity boards. The one thing that I keep noticing is that change happens when the LBS finally lets go of trying to control the situation. Or more to the point, when they finally quit trying to fix a broken relationship. I think this happens, because the LBS thinks the relationship is broken where the WAS is acting like the relationship is over. Maybe it is a semantic discussion, but that it does change my perspective on all of this. Thinking of it in terms of a relationship that is over rather than just merely broken helps in some weird way.
I have come to the conclusion that I haven't been acting like things are over. I've been trying to fix her; trying to get her to miss the way things were. Maybe she misses us. Maybe she's unhappy. Maybe not. But it really isn't my job to worry about that right now. She wouldn't tell me if it were true anyway. All I can do is to get on living my life.
I know that my W is going to contact me for something. She owes me a check. She'll stop it by the apartment and then linger to talk and catch up. She always does this. My question, for those more experienced, is how do I treat that interaction? I like talking with her, but I get frustrated that it seems like she wants to get her curiosity/security fix from me and then go back to doing whatever it is she does on her own. Do I shut down any talk about personal stuff? Do I just avoid R talk?
So you have really don't have anything that requires contact at all...do you? I'd be sure that everything...absolutely everything (insurance) is separate so that you are basically divorced. I wouldn't bother with even trying to touch base with her...she knows why you want to, because you're still hung up on her. Start rediscovering your single life. Enjoy yourself. Put her on the back burner. If she calls, be more like she is to you, noncommital and not that engaged in the relationship.
Personally, I think she probably has someone else. You can either move on with your life as though you are already divorced, or start the paperwork rolling yourself. Get out there...look around. At least be somewhere that you can see other fish in the sea, even if you aren't ready to fish. It helps to realize that you don't have to sit in limbo waiting for her to do something about the marriage. And oh yeah, if she mentions the marriage again, don't get into a discussion of it with her. Don't rise to the bait if she dangles anything about trying again. I'd imagine she gets in touch with you when things are rocky with some other guy, or he's otherwise not in touch with her. You are probably her back up plan...which is why she hasn't filed papers yet.
You cannot be lonely if you like the person you're alone with. Dr. Wayne Dyer
I know that my W is going to contact me for something. She owes me a check. She'll stop it by the apartment and then linger to talk and catch up. She always does this. My question, for those more experienced, is how do I treat that interaction? I like talking with her, but I get frustrated that it seems like she wants to get her curiosity/security fix from me and then go back to doing whatever it is she does on her own. Do I shut down any talk about personal stuff? Do I just avoid R talk?
Several things: You need to separate everything so that there is no "owing checks". There should be no financial ties to her. Cancel anything that you have together.
If it were me, I'd make plans for when she's coming over. Maybe be gone already...or be going out the door as she brings the check. Say, "hi. Sorry, gotta run." And go. Maybe add in, "it was nice to see you.", but it's got to be like you would say to some casual acquaintance. You don't have to stay and chat. She needs to get the sense you are over her. And then continue to be aloof (but increasingly less so) if she pursues. Always be nice, but don't give the impression you give a damn.
You cannot be lonely if you like the person you're alone with. Dr. Wayne Dyer
It seems like I'm finally getting this detachment thing. I've been thinking about this decoupling of the finances thing and could use some input here. When we were together, we had acquired some joint debt which was put on her cards. When W left I had agreed to pay my half of our joint debt. Of course, this was well before I found out about the A. Regardless of what ultimately happens with us, I don't have a problem paying my half of the debt. I could move this over to one of my account which would totally separate us financially. I feel like this gives her more financial freedom and encourages the separation. The other part of me wants to stop paying altogether until we are either divorced or reconciled, but I think that comes across as controlling.
Can you transfer half of that debt over to a credit card that is just in your name and get your name taken off the card? I'd call the credit card company and tell them what you'd like to achieve (taking half the debt and starting over without her on the card) and see what they can do.
You cannot be lonely if you like the person you're alone with. Dr. Wayne Dyer
A little update of sorts. I've been reading up on some other situations on there is one thing that I keep reading over and over ... basically, that once the LBS gets to the point where they accept the situation and start acting like the marriage is over, things change. This has been rolling around in my head for the last few weeks. I've been hanging on emotionally, waiting for her to decide what she is going to do. That is no way to live.
Splitting up the finances is one step in that acceptance. I think I've been holding on to the idea that if we are connected financially, we'd still have a reason to talk to each other. Not a fun realization, but it is at least honest. I haven't heard a peep out of her in two weeks.
So here's my current internal debate ... I got a new job about a month before she walked out. The commute is pretty ridiculous (about an hour and a half each way). I've been thinking that if I really believed she wasn't coming back, I would move closer to work. I've been sticking around hoping that she'll come to her senses. My lease is up at the end of July. So I'm contemplating just moving and getting on with my life. If she wants to work on things, we can easily do that from 75 miles away. The down side to this is that I fear this will give her ammunition to say that "I left her." I become the bad guy. I'm the one who didn't want to stick around to make it work. It is the same with the divorce itself. I don't want it. There is nothing I can do to stop her from divorcing me. I'm just not going to be the one to file. Maybe I'm just buying into the MLC/WAW psychosis.
I like the town where I live right now, it is just so far away from work.
Not that it really matters, but her lease was up on May 1st. When we talked two weeks ago I asked what her plan was, she just said that her lease was up. She hadn't renewed and hadn't found some place else. Very, very vague.
I've had some further thoughts on this and could use some DB clarification if anyone has some insight. If I were really single and not expecting her to return, I would have moved already. I don't really like the city, but I could always move back later. I'd make the commute if we were married and together, but single ... not so much. There are lots of things that I would do if I were actually single ... but I'm not. It is hard to get past the fact that I still see myself as spiritually, emotionally and physically married to this woman. It is hard to act like I'm not. I guess that is the sweet spot of lovingly detaching.
Hi mountain_west, Your situation sounds very similar to mine, only we have just been separated for 2 weeks. I can't imagine how painful it must be to be in limbo-land for a year! Like you, my WAS and I don't have kids together, and that makes it harder for them to see the changes in us. I wish there was more advice for people like us who really don't have many opportunities to communicate with our WAS. IMO, I think you should move so you can completely detach and not have that long commute. You have given her a year, and it sounds like it's going to take something drastic for her to make up her mind. I just feel so sorry for you. I think you know in your mind that you need to move. If she truly wants to be with you, she won't blame you for deserting her. Wish you the best!
Limbo is no fun. I know I can deal with whichever path we ultimately go down, but sitting here not moving in either direction drives me completely bonkers.
Today, moving feels like quitting to me. I can always move back if we get back together, but there is something about this that seems so ... wrong.
My wife moved out a little over a year ago, saying she needed some space to "find herself" again. New apartment, new clothes, new everything. She took the dogs and some of her stuff and just left. All summer we're in contact with each other and she keeps talking about divorce, which I do not want. In September sh eventually admitted to an EA, then confessed to a PA with this guy from overseas. We talked about what happens next. She says she wants to work on us getting back together. I told her that I needed two things for that to happen ... 1) i need to hear her say that she is going to try to make it work. 2) there has to be no contact with the other guy whatsoever. She agrees, a week later she says she has told him no more contact. We talk a little bit over the next few weeks ... we do stuff together and it is uncomfortable, but I see progress.
Maybe three weeks later... she basically drops off the planet again. I got the DB books and talked to the counselor. She says to back off, GAL, and stop pursuing. I have a hard time with this. I'm not sure why, but it feels so - wrong. We try to talk and go do things, but I notice that it is always me initiating, so i try to stop calling and I get all panicked and frustrated. Between T-giving and Xmas we have maybe 3 interactions. She shows up on Xmas Eve asking to borrow the vacuum. ??? That's an odd time to borrow something after not speaking to me for weeks, but ok. We end up talking about us and what we both want. She says she wants to try to get things working with us, but can't bear to have it fail again. Ok, i get that. So when we try to actually do something I'm met with excuse after excuse.
Most of the spring we had been talking maybe once a week. We'd usually do dinner on the weekend. I started to notice something, that she only calls when there is a bill involved. She never actually calls me for anything else. We only do things together because I initiate them. So, her birthday was at the end of February. I asked to take her to dinner. She says "lets wait and see since it will be a busy week." So I wait. She texts me on the way home from work that she's gonna take a rain check on dinner. That is odd for her so I call to ask what's up. Apparently her friends from work decided to surprise her with dinner. She'd rather do that. I'm not happy, but I bite my tongue. I want to bring over a little gift I got ... something little and stupid but that she would find funny. She's too tired to do anything. She's too tired to see me.
So it dawns on me that I'm the only one engaged here. She says she wants it to work, but does absolutely nothing about it. About a month ago I was ready to file. We've been separated over a year. She's been emotionally checked out for almost 2. I'm tired. I'm lonely. And I'm wondering if she is ever going to come around. So ... about a month ago I went very very dim. I initiate no contact unless there is something we absolutely have to talk about. This is the part that is killing me, and I'm not even sure this is the best plan of action. In the last month I've heard from her twice. We had to take care of the car insurance. What I want is for her to initiate something, anything. If she wants us to work, why does she just sit there? My spider sense is all tingly and I don't like it. I keep thinking that if she is not getting her emotional needs met with me (and not even trying to), then she is getting them met somewhere else. I don't know. My intuition isn't wrong very often.
I've been debating having this big talk and asking her why she hasn't filed yet. I mean, we don't talk. We don't do anything together. We have almost no interaction. I know that that discussion will likely set us back, but I am soooooo frustrated right now. So what do I do now?
I know this post is disjointed. It is harder to get things out on paper than I thought.
I haven't posted much on the forums lately, your situation sounds a bit similar to my own so I thought I would chime in.
This is just my 0.02 cents cdn so take it merely as advice.
You are currently living in limbo and as you noticed, you're not liking it much.
You have given all your power to your wife, she controls the show and she knows it. She controls you and unfortunately she is bored with you because of it. She doesn't respect you either because of this fact. That's attraction in a nutshell, or more accurately, how to kill attraction between 2 people.
You are conquered, she could have you back at any moment and she knows it. You present no challenge, you mention the relationship, you pursue her, you ask her for her opinion on things like the relationship, where it's headed, where to get an apartment,etc.
GAL, getting a life actually means to get a life, she still knows that you think about her everyday, we know you do, we're reading your posts on this forum.
Women don't respect men that they can control and they usually end up treating them poorly because of it.
You sound like a "nice guy", always there, reliable, responsible. And those are all good qualities but she is looking for something exciting.
Do you notice that you mentioned a few times that she would drop off the "planet" a few times and you wouldn't know anything about her, wouldn't speak to her, etc. Did you notice during those times that you were very interested in her whereabouts, what she was doing, who she was with, etc.
I will say it because it seems very clear to me that she is still seeing someone and she could even be seeing several people, jumping from one ship to another. She is enjoying her life.
What she is doing is what you are doing, living in limbo.
She enjoys meeting new people, dating other men, being intimate with other men, there is a certain excitement that comes with being with new people right now. The other part that she likes is having you waiting for her while she enjoys her single life. There is a fair amount of power she is weilding at this moment and it's intoxicating to her, it's a huge ego boost to her, she may even brag about it with the men that she casually sees right now and unfortunately may even laugh about you and how pathetic you are acting. There is also a certain amount of security that she enjoys knowing that if she ever gets tired of her single life and wants to go back to something more stable, secure & boring: you will be waiting with open arms for her.
Asking about the relationship shows that you are insecure, so stop asking any questions about it. Truth be told, I doubt that she ever brings up the relationship with you. Insecurity & a lack of confidence are the biggest killers of attraction - you need to stop doing this immediately.
Another thing: just assume the relationship is over because technically it is. This would actually be the first step in getting her back if you ever choose to want her back because in the end when you realize how much power you wield in this situation, you will know that you can have her back.
You need to get a life, seriously. Hang out with your friends, don't ask about her, don't text her, email her, call her, etc. When she calls & leaves a voicemail, take your time responding back. In fact as an exercise for you, when she calls & leaves a msg, take several days to reply back to her: in fact I would wait for her to contact you repeatedly to get your attention.
Currently she only contacts you when she needs assistance with a bill or some other financial responsibility. You have to remove yourself from doing this, she's a big girl: if she can decide to be an adult and have affairs with other men while being married to you, she can certainly learn to be an adult and take care of whatever other responsibilities exist between the two of you.
Do you go to a gym? If not, get your a$$ to one right now and start pumping some heavy iron, get used to sweating & working out on a daily basis. It's great for your self-esteem, helps with anxiety & stress (you have lots of it) and it will pump up your testosterone production. Women in their 30s & 40s experience an increase in testosterone production in their bodies: it makes them more assertive, aggressive, they have much greater sexual appetites (that's why the bulk of PA's & EA's that women are involved in usually happen during this age bracket). During your 30s & 40s, you're experiencing the opposite: a decrease in testosterone and an increase in estrogen production - you've become more sensitive, more loving, more maternal, etc. etc. and you stop exhibiting more masculine traits that women find attractive.
Start doing different things: hang out more with friends, start shopping more for yourself, change your image, different clothes, different hairstyle, different shoes, etc. You would be amazed at how these simple things can affect your self-esteem and give you the necessary push in the right direction.
Start dating other women and enjoy the boost of confidence you will receive because of it. Start assuming you are worth a better life and go out and do something about it.
Yes, you're married and it's seem counter-intuitive but you have to realize that everything you need to do to get you a better than average chance of reconciling with your wife is to do the opposite of what you have been doing.
No more dinners where you pay, if you happen to go out with her, ask her to pay for her own meal and you can pay for your own meal or better yet, get her to pay for both! I'm serious, I can easily see that you are the one who probably pays for dinner because you're a gentleman and that's what nice guys do and she expects and there is no challenge with that.
In fact if she asks you to go out for dinner (which I'm sure she never does, you probably offer to take her out), suggest going out for coffee instead.
Make yourself unavailable for her.
Make yourself a mystery to her, I hope she doesn't know what your life is like every second of the day: being predictable is a huge attraction killer.
Move, you said you are thinking whether or not to maintain your current apartment or move closer to work. Here's the idea, you currently live where you do because you're closer to her and you don't mind the daily commute 1.5 hours each way. That communicates you are broken to her and have no spine to stand up for yourself are willing to be treated like a door mat just for a few morsels of attention from her.
Move closer to work and if you guys do meet up, meet half way.
Stop being needy, stop asking about the relationship, stop asking why she hasn't filed for separation or divorce, stop asking: who cares, if she doesn't care, you should care even less. The person who cares least about a relationship is the one who controls it, currently who is controlling this relationship with the two of you? I'll give you a clue, I don't think it's you.
The only person you need in life is yourself.
Grow a spine and stand up for yourself.
I could go on & on with this, there is so much to talk about.
Currently you are too easy and not attractive to her. Currently you supplicate her: offer to buy gifts, dinners, offer to help with this, that and everything else. Typical nice guy behavior but deep down it's suggestive of someone being manipulative: I'm doing these things so that you will like me & love me again because I don't believe that I have enough value by myself - I need to do all of this for you to like me. Doing this communicates to her that you have little value while she has very high value and why would she want to be with someone who has little value, she feels she is worth more and you don't match up to her.
Take whatever male logic you are using right now when dealing with her and this situation and throw it out the window: think about doing the opposite in most situations. You are dealing with walk away wife female logic and a different set of rules applies and only when you start realizing this and start living differently and making sure you have a great life for yourself first & foremost will you ever have a chance of getting your wife back.
And unfortunately.... you will continue to live in limbo until you understand this.
Good luck bro, let me know if you want hear more on this.
