In Utter Agony...Long 1st Post

[eternaloptimist]

Thanks so much for the support here today.

Anybody else use homeopathic medicine to cope with the DBing stress? I keep Bach's Flower Rescue Remedy spray with me at all times. It has been helping.

Ho-Hum. H called me about 6 times today, sounding remorseful, apologizing, saying he's sorry that he hurt me so much these past 6 months, worried about my sanity and psychological well-being b/c of my recent emotional outbursts that scared him. He tells me where he's going during the day, what he's doing, etc. All good signs I think that he is trying to let me know his whereabouts. This is all new behavior. He wanted to talk about the R and our "big talk" tomorrow night where we are going to look at finances and options and which option will be best for all three of us and which option will require the most "effort." He's emotionally exhausted and just "wants to be alone." I need to bite my tongue, but I want to say, "Divorce will not solve our problems. It will create new ones and permanent ones for our son." His divorced friends keep pumping info into him that, if we can part amicably, divorce doesn't have to be negative for the children involved.

I calmly told him in each phone call that given the circumstances, I'm doing pretty well and that we will be fine whatever the outcome. We discussed the day-to-day care of our son and schedules.

I just have no idea what to think anymore. I believe he has 1 1/2 feet out the door... Given his emotional turmoil, I think he's incapable of making any healthy decisions to affect the rest of his life.

[dburt]

This is probably against DB techniques but I always disagreed with my wife about how our kids would not be affected if we divorced. I would calmly say I do not agree with that, there are far too many studies that confirm that even with amical divorces the long term effects on kids can be significant.

I also would not agree with her that it would work out rather or not we split up.

As far as remedies go, I would recommend an antidepresant to get you through this if you really need it, it is proven to help.

Burt

[eternaloptimist]

Hi, Burt. Thanks. Did you cope with a PA or EA? I have a thread in the infidelity section that I'd love your take on.

Last night, I was prepared to forgive him b/c he vehemently denied any PA. But, after getting some feedback from ppl here, I no longer believe his lies. Am I over-reacting?

[stillloveshim]

Have you read Divorce Remedy?
Stop asking him about the PA for now. If he's denied it there is NOTHING you can say or do to get him to admit it. Just assume it's happened and now be the best woman/mother/wife you can be.
I think now would be a good time to concentrate on you and the things you like and remembering who you really are and not this freaked out scared woman. Be confident, like you own the world. I just recently started this and I mean very recently with more consistency--good results. It's very sexy.
Concentrate on your baby boy, sounds like you went through a lot and now that he's here, enjoy every second, no matte what is happening around you.
My H had an EA and a PA too. I'm not sure how PA it was, but the EA is bad enough. Still working on recovering from that but at this point he says it's over and I'm delusional.
My goal right now is no fighting for three solid weeks, no fighting of any kind. And that goal includes asking/talking about OW at absolutely NO time at all.
Let that go for now. Table it. Come back to it when you're in a better place.

[eternaloptimist]

Have you read Divorce Remedy?

Yes, I have DR and DB books as well as several others. I also did 3 phone calls with a DB coach. Your advice is good, but I can't forgive a PA. EA is different, I can forgive that. I especially can't forgive the PA b/c it was with his therapist, a woman whom I trusted and confided in. I feel doubly betrayed.

[dburt]

You need to make a decision whether you can let that go or not, going forward it does no good to constantly worry about it. It sounds like you are still in the punishing stage, who cares who it was, would it have been better if it were a stranger, or your best friend, who cares, it was your husband, and now you must decide when you are going to start piecing your marriage back together, or just steam and let it to continue to go down hill.

Burt

[eternaloptimist]

You need to make a decision whether you can let that go or not, going forward it does no good to constantly worry about it. It sounds like you are still in the punishing stage, who cares who it was, would it have been better if it were a stranger, or your best friend, who cares, it was your husband, and now you must decide when you are going to start piecing your marriage back together, or just steam and let it to continue to go down hill.

Burt

Hi, Burt. Yeah, you are SO right. It's been a hard day. I don't feel that I have been punishing him just asking questions, which he is sick of answering. If anything, I have been the one to reach out to him, wanting to make love to him (and being rejected, so a 180 that backfired), still doing all of the things I've always done to show him love---taking care of our son, buying his favorite cookies, making his favorite meals, family activities that I know he'll love, putting my job 2nd to family obligations to the detriment of my career, supporting him with his hobbies and work. From the very beginning when the EA was revealed, I felt like I was his champion, emphasizing how the therapist took advantage of his vulnerabilities for her own personal gain. He's been exploited. He didn't see it that way; he feels guilty for initiating contact. I'm more angry at the therapist than at him b/c my H has been in so much pain for so long.

Whether or not I want to piece the marriage together, since I'm the one unilaterally championing it, seems like the pivotal question of the day. I guess I just don't know right now.

[JKL2009]

This is probably against DB techniques but I always disagreed with my wife about how our kids would not be affected if we divorced. I would calmly say I do not agree with that, there are far too many studies that confirm that even with amical divorces the long term effects on kids can be significant.

I agree, I two have done this exact same thing. Yes, kids might "get over it" but they will never be as well off.

[eternaloptimist]

This is probably against DB techniques but I always disagreed with my wife about how our kids would not be affected if we divorced. I would calmly say I do not agree with that, there are far too many studies that confirm that even with amical divorces the long term effects on kids can be significant.

I agree, I two have done this exact same thing. Yes, kids might "get over it" but they will never be as well off.

I agree too. There was a 25-year longitudinal study (sorry, I'm in academe) released on the long-term effects of children of divorce. Parents can move on and maybe make their lives better, but divorce is permanent for the kids. I brought this up in a MC session recently after our MC said that "kids are resilient and will bounce back."

[IWillSaveOurMarr]

Eternal:

Whoa there! You kind of sound like I do sometimes, when I'm checking in with my therapist, kind of unplugging and unloading all the drama that's been happening to you. I'm with you, because it has been a heck of a lot and soon. It also sounds like you are pressuring yourself to see instant results and know exactly what you want to do about everything (divorce, sepearation, etc) immediately. He is also pushing you, with this "Wednesday meeting" thing. I have experienced the same with my H, and it's really bad, because as my therapist explainied, it's a) letting him control me, as he has a big thing about control b) letting his anxiety about things make ME anxious unnecessarily c) pushing me into making important decisions when I'm not ready and haven't gotten all the info I need yet.

So I'll tell you what she told me: first, take a breath and breathe every time before you respond to him, then she suggested I say to him "I am working on myself right now, which will help the marriage, you can do what you want to do, and can file if you need to file (this is when he was threatening me to file divorce constantly) and I will file if I need to file". Obviously, you don't need that last part, but that is what I was dealing with at the time. I find repeating this over and over in my head is very calming and helps me diffuse his anxiety and urgency and keep it from "infecting" me. The point is that while HE may have been giving this a lot of thought, you just recieved this info a very short time ago and most likely still need to process before you come up with what you want to do.

With that in mind, I suggest you do no talking AT ALL during this Wednesday meeting if you don't feel 100% ready for it (not only ready with what you want/feel but feel 100% confident that you can present it in a slow, calm, manner that doesn't freak him out - this is by far the hardest part for me, and it sounds like for you as well), and if he asks your opinion maybe say that you aren't quite ready to give your opinion right now, you wanted to hear him out fully though, and then you will get back to him after you've thought about it more.

You've gotten some great advice here from burt and others, and definatley listen to it.

It sounds like you are definately practicing and getting better, as evidenced by one of the conversations you recently had that sound like they went really well. I agree with another poster that you absoulutely need to make sure no conversations escalate into arguments right now, and if you feel it is, then stop the interaction immediately.

Also, you and I share something wiht our H that is very important, and accd to one poster, unique here, in that our spouses are still willing to say that they love us. I am new here too, but glad to hear that someone else also has that spark of hope too. I think that he can still verbalize it is HUGE, and take solace in that, as well as the fact that he said he is in no hurry to leave (nor is mine, but that's another story and not necessarily because he loves it here and wants to reunite).

So you've got a lot in your favor here, but you need to make sure each and every encounter is positive. As someone living through this as well, I can tell you that I absolutely know how hard that is living the DR, and personally, I slipped up big time 2x yesterday myself, the first time in a long time, but it still didn't get as bad as it had been and I'm getting right back on the horse right now. You need to do the same, no matter how your last interaction went, you need to face this one with fresh, new eyes, not jaded by knowlege of what your H has done in the past, but loving and open.

You wouldn't be here if you too didn't believe in the promise and hope of DR, that you too can not only mend your relationship split, but emerge as a couple even stronger and much more loving. To do that, you will need to bust your butt working harder than you can imagine possible to do this day to day, hour to hour, and it will take 3x as long as you hope it will. You have made me realize something though, Eternal, and it is key we hold onto it and cherish it deep within our hearts...the fact we still have our H saying they love us and are still living with us are really really important, and others here would love to have these advantages but don't right now. For them, as for us, we can't let our impatience (which is understandable) and frustration (again, totally understandable) get in our way of making this work really well. It's not fair to have this big positive in our favor, yet ruin it because we want results immediately, that's really throwing the baby out with the bathwater, don't you agree? Thank you for teaching me that with your example.

Also, good for you that you have your great career and little boy to cherish. Between these things and your hobbies you should have TONS to do to distract yourself from thinking too much about this 24/7.

When you are thinking about it, consider this a case study, like you said, and document the heck out of it as far as watching for the "baby steps" you want to see to show that your H is getting closer to the goals you have written down. If you haven't started a journal to document this and write down your goals for the marriage, do so now! Take advantage of your scholarly prowress to look at this in a more objective manner and you might find it easier to be calm and patient and loving and happy, even when you feel (and frankly they deserve) that you instead want to scream at your H! Keep us informed and good luck to you.