Sandi's Place

[sandi2]

Dear Stuck, I sure hate that you are having to continually go thought this mess, but as you can tell by other postings......it is not a "new" thing that has just been invented. I wished I had been informed about MLC/WAW before I had my ordeal b/c I did not understand what was happening to me. Even though you may have tried to tell your wife.....I don't think she "gets it". For one thing, she doesn't want to. She is so fogged out that she is not herself and you can't talk to her rationally like you used to talk to your "wife". Actually to put it bluntly, I think you have to treat her as if she is NOT your wife! You see, that is where the "rub" comes into play. You expect her to still act, talk, think, and love as your wife did. At this point in time.....she is not that person. You would have right to grieve b/c in some ways you feel that you have lost her. Hopefully, one day she will resurface, but for now she is lost. Stuck, I can honestly tell you this from my heart b/c I have been there. The WW I was back then was NOT WHO I REALLY AM. I look back at the things I did, said, thought, etc. and I am so ashamed and embarrased. It is as if I was in a state of insanity! So, with the idea of you treating her as if she was not your wife.......let's look at this last post. (And before you say that you can't do that.....just bear with me, okay?)

I noticed that she once again started to withdraw and that she had put our girls to bed without saying "goodnight" to me which is what she normally does.

By "what she normally does", are you referring to her putting the girls to bed or without saying goodnight? Let's pretend she is not your wife and she is just another person who shares your home and the responsibility of the work and raising the girls. How would you feel if that person did not make a point to say "goodnight"? If you still feel that it is rude, then I would say to call her hand on it.....just like you did. However, if you were agitatied b/c it was your "wife" who did not say goodnight, then you do not need to say anything about it and let it run off your back. Don't allow those actions to control you.

Well, get this. For some reason I felt the urge to google her OM's name on Wednesday.

Stuck, if anyone understands temptation.....I do. However, you know by now that this line of thinking is going to only lead to something negative for "you". Even though you proved a point about him, you gained no ground in her eyes......even if she thanked you for telling her what you did. You won no brownie points with her. See what I mean? If you had handled it as if she was any other person living in your home, would you have snooped? No....(and I can hear you saying, "But she's my wife", which is exactly the point I'm making.)

I followed her in and told her how she was acting very short tempered and talking down to me, which she said she didn't know she was doing.

I do not blame you for standing up to her and calling her hand on her not treating you with respect. This is where it gets really complicated. Not treating her as if she is your wife, but yet you are the father of her children and you expect to be treated with respect. But also.....wouldn't you expect for any other person living in your home to treat you with respect? So, I have to go back to the original idea of you treating her as if she was not your wife. Tough....huh?

So then it spun into a R talk and her saying that she didn't want to be M anymore.

It usually does. That is why we tell LBS to stay away from serious talks if at all possible. Next time, try to stop it in its tracks once you make a point of the "respect" issue and do not allow it to go any farther. Hold up your hand in the stop signal and say that is all you want to say at this time. She cannot get into a R talk with you unless you follow along. It's a trap!

I asked her why again and she said she just didn't love me. I asked her again how did she get to that point and she said she just didn't love me.

Do you see yourself using the word "again" in this quote? That means you two have been over this territory before. No use in covering it again b/c you won't get any farther the second time around. I know that it comes natural to want to do that.....but it never works! The reason she only says that she doesn't love you is b/c she doesn't know the true answers herself, and she is basing it on her emotions at this time, which are all false chemicals flooding her brain!

Then I brought up how after our first daughter was born she told me that she could see herself as a single mom. I told her at that time we should have realized there was something wrong, but she said that that is when she should have left. AT that time I asked her why she said that and she told me she didn't know.

Now sweetie, I don't think you realize this, but you were putting pressure on her when you brought the babies into the picture. My H used to do me that way and it is laying a guilt trip on the WW. Not a good thing to do. Again, you are not winning any brownie points. I just want you to be careful not to do this in the future, okay? Also, it sounded like she must have had post-partum depression after having the babies. I have learned that it can last much longer than people use to realize.

I don't know where she gets this running away issue. Where when there's a problem she just leaves.

Go back and read Michelle's article here on the board about the WAW. This is a perfect picture of how she feels. I remember feeling like I just wanted to take off running and never look back. Yes, it gets that bad! She can't deal with reality and she is wanting the fantasy.

I asked her about the ring and she told me that she doesn't wear it because she doesn't consider us married. WTF? She's home, carrying on like nothing is wrong and doesn't consider us M?

As Puppy Dog would say, this is all script. I think every LBH who has asked his WAW why she has stopped wearing her wedding rings has received the exact answer word for word. She is telling you the truth in how she is feeling right now.......she doesn't want to consider the two of you as M. Actually, she is saying she does not want to "feel" M or to be seen as a M woman. It goes back to having that desire to be single that she never got completely rid of when the kids were born. (I know this is making you sick, but I have to be honest and tell it like it is.)

She also said she could see herself living like roommates without sex. I told her she's gotta be kidding and that she hasn't thought of me in the slightest

My H and I said the same thing to each other! At the time, I thought I would never be able to be intimate with him again. Even though we may not have the hot sex life that some do......at least I feel the love in my heart and know we are okay now. We are loving towards each other--and not like "roommates", either!

Everything she has been doing was her being "independent". She doesn't even share her thoughts with me anyway. She then said that she did not want me to fulfill her needs and wants, etc. Funny when I didn't even know what those were.

What you call her being independent and making choices, etc. is not the same as what she sees as being completely independent of "you"! That is what she means. Yes, I felt the very same way! In fact, I would not allow my H to see me undressed b/c I was being "faithful" to my OM (in my own mind). How "sick" is that?? It was my little game that I played so that it endorsed my "emotional divorcement" from my H. And....of course, we were not sharing the same bedroom, so I thought I was being "true" to my OM. It really makes me want to throw-up when I put all of this into words, but I hope it shows you the insane, mixed-up, emotional mess a WAW is in. You almost have to treat her as if she is a mentally ill person. I may get stones thrown at me for saying that, but I can look back at myself and think I must have been nuts! I did not want my H to fulfill my needs! I thought I had given him decades to do that and he had failed, so now it was time for the OM to do it. She is thinking that it is too late and that you "can't" do the job and futher more, she doesn't "want" you to be the one to fulfill her needs.

She said she just wants to be independent and live on her own.

Nobody in my family had any idea how badly I wanted to be away from all of them and live in another town where nobody knew me and be totally independent. That alone--would tell all that personally know me that I was not my true self at that time.

I just don't understand how anyone can be so detached living under the same roof and not want to work on anything and stay miserable.

I know you can't understand, sweetie. I don't know if I have ever met a LBS that could "understand". You see, you are trying to make sense of it all, and it can't be done. It is like a new & strange disease that can't be explained.......it just has to be dealt with the best you can. You don't have to like it or understand it, and you can either choose to deal with it or pretend it doesn't exsist......but it will still be there. What matters is "how" you choose to deal with it.....what road you take in how you handle everything in hopes that one day......all will be well.

As far as thinking she wants to stay under the same roof and not work on the R and stay miserable?........she is not really "thinking" that herself! She is in a fantasy world. She is dreaming of how her life "will be" in the future and just bidding her time. She sees herself as a lady in waiting....for OM. Enough to cause chest pains, isn't it?

When I'm around her, should I act as if we are still a M couple? Or give her space like a roommate?

Stuck, I'm going to tell you this.......and I am not taking credit for the D bust b/c it was more people than just me talking to this young man and besides he did a lot of very hard work on himself. A young man by the name of Steve came on the board with a WAW. She had a couple of A's and involved in another one (if I remember correctly). She was pregnant and Steve did not even know if it was his baby or not. Things looked very grim. I talked to him as if he were my own son and got pretty hard on him and used several 2x4's. In fact, I was not as nice as I've been to you.....lol. Anyway, I told him he could go a couple of different directions and he chose to stick it out and work like the devil on himself and be "best friends" with his WAW who was still living under the same roof. They were not even sharing the same bedroom at the time he first came on board. She was on a roller coaster ride just like your W. She was hot and cold......up and down. At times he thought he would not be able to take much more but he would hang in one more day. To make a long story short......before the baby was born, they were sleeping together and making love. She had stopped all PA's and was trying to break off the EA. The baby was born and looked just like Steve and he chose not to have a DNA. He wanted to be the daddy to the baby and chose to do that. The last I heard, everything was great! I could not have been more proud if I had been his Mamma. The reason I told you about Steve is b/c I wanted you to know that IT IS POSSIBLE. Some men say that there is no way that they could act as if they were "just" best friends with their W. Had you prefer the alternative.....which would be a D? That IS what the alternative would be, you know, b/c this other way you try to fall back on.....does not and will not work.

She's signed us up for a couple of outings as a family and I get the feeling that if I asked her out to lunch alone, she'd accept.

Okay, but treat it like you would a good friend.....or better yet.....a causual friend or co-worker. That way, the personal feeling/emotions does not get caught in the "trap" like it usually does. You must keep that "mind-set" of being a friend only and DO NOT think of her as your wife. Sounds impossible? Steve thought so, but he decided he would give it his very best shot in order to save a R with his W. It was that or lose her forever. In the end.....it worked. Not an easy task, but possible. I could tell you of another story where I worked with the wife of a WAH. He was having an open A with OW and the wife continued to act as his best friend and it finally drew him back to her. But the key is to always ask yourself how you would deal with a "friend" in a particular situation. Just like with the "good-night" stuff. How or what would you expect for a friend to do before turning in for the night and would you have confronted a friend about it? I'm not saying what you should have or have not done, but I'm saying that you have to decide how you deal with a friend in these things.

Ask her out for a causual dinner......but do not make it one ounce romantic or you will "kill" it. You would not be romantic with a co-worker, causual friend, or even a best friend. You will constantly have to remind yourself that this is a "friends only" R. It will be very difficult. However, I believe under the circumstances of the R with OM, etc., that this would be your best route. You can come every day if you need to in order to walk it through together.

Don't bring up about how things had been if you two had not married or how good it has been, etc. That does not help. It makes matters worse.

This has been an extremely long post, but you are worth it! I want to help in any way that I can. I truly believe your M can make it or I would tell you to forget her.

Take care and I'll check on you later.

Sandi