Paul, your exactly right, you can only be forgiving and hopeful up to a point most of us have our "cant look back now" place. Its usually a lot further down the road that we think it is, but it does exist. for me it was definitely when H brought his OW to this country behind everyones backs and had her living with him all the while telling others I kept his kids from him. He wouldnt even tell me where he LIVED, but he forgot to tell people THAT part.... convenient

for me that was the "last straw" and I really had a cold reality check that this man thought nothing of me, it was over. sick or not, depressed or not, he went "too far". if your spouse goes TOO FAR, then even tho you still love them a lot and still feel erally sad and have a lot of hope, its probably not ever going to work, bc you cant get past the "too far" thing. you can forgive up to a POINT, and then theres the point of no return... I think the hardest part is realising when you have hit it... thats when a lot of real anger and sadness and depression comes in... and it stays for a long time too... im not sure how long yet, I'll let you know when mines over! I think ive been in that place of "no return" for the past 12 months. Horrible place to be; your emotions are all over the shop. you cant say how you'll feel from one day to the next, except it'll suck.

I guess all you can do really at that point is to decide not to become a "hating machine" like they are to you, bc its aroun that time you think "i'll get you". it really is. thats when you get as reckless as they are and can you say war of the roses? if you can keep your head during this time and not let the hurt and sadness turn you into a nasty monster, you can be proud of that. just bc they hurt us doesnt mean we need to hurt back (I say this in hindsight bc actually I went ballistic). but i dont recommend it...

When you're down to nothing, God is up to something.