Outsider's perspective: I would imagine that a WAS perceiving a negotiation as "ugly" if the consequences are seen as a punishment, or as a harsh reality of loss that the LBS seems to secretly enjoy (Shadenfrued.)
I would also imagine that if you actually do get "ugly" in those discussions, with a poor attitude or combative tone, it will validate the walk-away and drive him/her further away.
So, I would think it best to avoid any appearance of Shadenfrued, if at all possible. (Even though observing the WAS lying in the bed s/he has made might feel soooooo good at times.)
Lucky
P.S. I'm not assuming that you, Thinker, or any other LBS has done anything overt in this regard. I'm just wondering if there might be some of those feelings that peak out in the tone or body language during discussions.
One challenge I would make to that, Lucky, is that -- given Fog -- I wouldn't be at all surprised if WAS didn't perceive EVERYTHING as "ugly" if it weren't exactly what s/he wanted, because ANYTHING other than the preferred outcome could be chalked up to spite.
A tightrope I'm walking for the next three weeks as a matter of fact.
You may be right in my sitch only because in my case I had been stewing over my W's unrealistic view of D for some time prior to discussion, so what I perceived as being calm, may have actually come across as "ha!, you are wrong!..."
I thought I was calm, but maybe not.
At the same time, I still think that my W's initial view of D (Thinker still around providing full financial and child-care support, and Mrs. Thinker otherwise free to pursue new career and love interests without concern for money and without losing any time or love from her kids is completely out to lunch.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
You may be right in my sitch only because in my case I had been stewing over my W's unrealistic view of D for some time prior to discussion, so what I perceived as being calm, may have actually come across as "ha!, you are wrong!..."
I thought I was calm, but maybe not.
At the same time, I still think that my W's initial view of D (Thinker still around providing full financial and child-care support, and Mrs. Thinker otherwise free to pursue new career and love interests without concern for money and without losing any time or love from her kids is completely out to lunch.
As
As
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
You may be right in my sitch only because in my case I had been stewing over my W's unrealistic view of D for some time prior to discussion, so what I perceived as being calm, may have actually come across as "ha!, you are wrong!..."
I thought I was calm, but maybe not.
At the same time, I still think that my W's initial view of D (Thinker still around providing full financial and child-care support, and Mrs. Thinker otherwise free to pursue new career and love interests without concern for money and without losing any time or love from her kids is completely out to lunch.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
I know a lot of you out there would love to trade sitches, but mine is still driving me crazy.
My W is not committed to reconciliation or a future R of any sort, but...
We are still living together.
We are still in very close contact
She appears very conflicted.
She still wants sex...
And I am on a roller coaster emotionally...
The cycle begins with me being relatively detached - doing stuff together with the boys, but otherwise doing my own stuff - happy, strong, etc. I am clear in this sitch that we are emotionally divorced, that Mrs Thinker has no interest in Thinker, etc.
Then Mrs Thinker initiates ML (and it is surprisingly better than anything in recent years) Suddenly Thinker is hooked.
Immediately afterwards, Mrs Thinker withdraws. So suddenly that the tears appear during the final "O". (I know, TMI) Mrs. Thinker permits no intimacy afterwards.
Thinker tries to comfort W as she pulls away, but to no avail.
There is distance for some time (days, a week), as Thinker gives Mrs. Thinker space while internally going crazy.
Next, Thinker gives in to circumstances and tries to initiate ML. Mrs Thinker gets angry ("you don't listen to me! I told you I am not attracted to you and am not interested in sex!" etc!
Ugly R discussions in which it is made clear by W that sex is out of picture for time being...
Thinker backs off and detaches. This lasts for some time until the cycle starts again, with Mrs. Thinker initiating...
So far, I can identify this as happening 4 times.
Aaarghhhh!
There appears to be only 2 ways for Thinker to break the cycle:
1) Refuse to ML when Mrs. Thinker initiates. Is that really an option - Thinker thinks not (and wants not)
2) Stop becomming un-detached and falling head over heels back in love with Mrs Thinker when she initiates great ML and then shows vulnerability by crying and withdrawing (very very difficult for Thinker)
3) Thinker avoids initiating follow-up ML - also very difficult. Now the beast of desire is awake!
Once again Aaaarghhh!
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
OK she won't go to counseling and her sexual behavior is very interesting and sounds abnormal. This looks like symptoms of a much more serious problem which you cannot handle by "DBing". I suggest you consult a highly recommended therapist (preferably a woman well versed in these matters). She may have been sexually abused as a child, have been more involved with OM than you know, etc.
At the same time, I still think that my W's initial view of D (Thinker still around providing full financial and child-care support, and Mrs. Thinker otherwise free to pursue new career and love interests without concern for money and without losing any time or love from her kids is completely out to lunch.
But, on top of that, she wants to go back to school full-time to get a masters in public policy with yours truly footing the bill (oh, and to be BFFs with me)...
But, as you pointed out, (I'm paraphrasing) everyone's sitch has its own "suckdom"... Although I am envious of the good parts of your cycle problem...
-AlexEn
Last edited by AlexEN; 05/29/0903:09 AM.
New: What a Weekend
H-48 WAW-49 M-22 S-14,9 D-11 EA disc.-11/07 PA disc.-3/08 EA2?-6/08 to ?
I just finished schnarch (Passionate Marriage). Very insightful.
Best parts for me were the concepts of differentiation and self - validated intimacy (very different from DB).
Also the chapter about creating your "crucible" - i.e. Focus on your own issues, do it without guarantee of reciprocity from your S, do it for yourself, etc.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
