WAW - Very confused and devastated - pt 9

[cire2]

Forgot to state she texted me but I haven't responded. Not sure how to yet.

[PMA_Baby!]

She called me right away. She started by saying how she was mad that I don't call her when I have the kids for her to say good nite like she does. I told her that I didn't know she wanted me to call her and she could call, like I do when she doesn't call me to say goodnite to the kids

Bravo! Exactly. Like you do when she has the kids. If she wants to talk to them she can call. Don't let her MANIPULATE you with HER GUILT and CONTROL. Nice job Validating! But you also started to set a boundary which was good by saying she is welcome to call anytime.

She then started gripping about how the kids are really acting up at her place, last nite in particular. I almost said can you blame them considering how she turned their lives upside down. I just empathized with her.

Again. Nice job. You VALIDATED and EMPATHIZED, but this where the tough love comes in. She asked for THIS and THIS is all part of tearing a home apart. Wake up WAW!!!

Then she complained about how cold and miserable the weather was this morning and surprised how nice it got this morning. She asked how baseball went. I told her the boys and I had a blast and really talked up how fun it was.

Way to keep POSITIVE!

She said that she had an appointment tonite that she had been trying to get so that's why she missed going. She didn't elaborate what it was nor did I pry. She did say she had leftovers for dinner, so maybe it wasn't a date. Maybe it was for therapy, or for her back, or for her hair or whatever. I can't waste my energy trying to figure it out

You answered that one yourself. Nice.

Then she talked about how the kids were talking about going bowling again. I said I was going to take them Sat so she was welcome to come. She said that she thinks its going to get confusing to the kids. She said we did 5 family things together in the last 10 days. I guess she really is taking what I said about adding to the hurt comment I made last week. Sigh. Guess its a case of be careful of what you wish for. I know its the right thing though

Yup. It is the right thing. You've put the invites out there now wait till she comes to you. You are just PRESSURING her with every invite. Forget inviting her for now. Remember she needs to MISS YOU she needs to MISS being a FAMILY. Right now she is just feelings TRAPPED and PRESSURED. Stop asking her!!! She is CONFUSED though and she will most likely get upset and ask why your not inviting her anymore. Just VALIDATE her feelings and say she is WELCOME to join you guys anytime. DONT let her MANIPULATE YOU with HER GUILT. These are HER CHOICES. YOU are just showing her that you are NOT going to ENABLE them. Part of why your in this mess is because she as ALL WAS's do; she LOST RESPECT for YOU. Setting YOUR BOUNDARIES will HELP gain back that RESPECT. Not at first, but EVENTUALLY. At first she will just think YOU'RE being MEAN, but if you are CONSISTENT she will LEARN to RESPECT it. If not that is when you have to question is she the type of person you want by your side anyway. Is SHE STRONG enough to do the WORK???

At that point I had enough so I said it was getting late so if there wasn't anything else, I was going to bed. She said no there wasn't so have a goodnite

Well done. You took her CONTROL of the conversationo away. That is TOUGH LOVE and she needs that. She can't EXPECT/DEPEND on YOU to be HER CRUTCH anymore. That is part of the choices she made. She NEEDS to LEARN that through TOUGH LOVE and that is what you're doing by setting your BOUNDARIES.

Maybe I shouldn't have answered the text but at least I didn't try to talk about the relationship. I think...

Maybe. But you did and you handled it well. Next time reply if YOU WANT to but NOT because you think that is what she WANTED.

I did try to follow Sandi's advice of just saying things once and don't let her ping pong the conversation. I tried to listen as much as possible

I also noticed that. Great job!

So is this going cause a Coach to rustle up a caravan?

Maybe for a GAL DB roadtrip

[/quote]

[confusedinpa]

Sorry to disagree with.stuck but I see it as diffusing an already agitated person. CIPA it sounds like you listened and understood the point W was making and stated that. Nothing wrong there and if she crosses a boundary or you feel controlled then let your actions set things straight.

Cire and Stuck

I see both points that the two of you are making. I do agree that it seems like she was trying to control what's going on again. I decided to listen and validate before I offered my perspective that she could call like I do.

She did make sense on why the parent with the kids should call as with young kids, the schedules can be very difficult. She tried to say that it shouldn't be a routine as it could be difficult if I miss calling. I did define my N.U.T as I will call the kids if she doesn't call me.

I do see/think that she's getting a sense of what its doing relative to the kids. My 7 year old is really acting up, who is her favorite do no wrong child, to the point she said she slapped him in the face (I didn't tell her my 3 year old already told me that). She told me that my 7 year old then asked to go back home to Daddy. I'm sure that pissed her off.

I think the kids are both angry and they are blaming her.

I think that's what hurts me the most right now. Seeing what its doing to the family/boys. I told my therapist & friends that if it wasn't for the kids I probably wouldn't be fighting so hard. No because I don't love her but more so that I just want to stop the pain. Problem is if I don't keep fighting, my pain for me may stop, but it will be replaced by the greater hurt knowing I gave up and the kids pain continues

I do pray for strength and wisdom

Thanks for all the support

[Coach]

CIPA, That was a great exchange. You caught yourself before you jumped into the space, think each time before you speak. One time I took my phone apart and hid the pieces throughout the house so I couldn't make a spur of the moment call and say something unproductive. Here is a question I used to asked myself before I did anything - will it help me towards my goal? If I was unsure I asked here. Sandi once blasted me and said, "and you call yourself a Coach?!"
Open your mind and heart to knew ideas, thoughts and beliefs. DBing was the hardest thing I had ever done. I screwed up royally before I learned. The teachers are here, once you stop struggling and relax then you can swim on your own. You can handle it.
Cheers
Coach
ps No caravan but we are on standby.

[MrBond]

She slapped your son? Does she normally discipline them like that?

If not, then I'd make sure she's not taking out her frustrations on them. She still hasn't done anything to help herself in that department, so all she's doing is letting things build again in herself and since you're not there to take it out on you, I'd hate to think she's punishing them for it.

My W did the same thing. Not the physical slapping, but when we were separated, I noticed she was much more prone to frustration and anger and would yell at our D's more. Something totally not in her personality.

[steady]

Confused I can so relate to where you're head is at. The best thing is to focus on detaching from her. I know it's one of the most difficult things to do in the position you are in, but it really is the only chance you have.

Did you ever read the Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle? The condensed version of it, Practicing the Power of Now and the other book, Stillness Speaks were very helpful for me to keep it in the Now and not project my mind forward or back.

I'll be checking in on you.

[confusedinpa]

PMA_Baby!

Thanks the encouraging feedback. The ironic part when these conversations go this way, I always feel they didn't go well and when I thought that the conversations went well, all the 2x4's come out. I'm still trying to figure it out, but I appreciate you sharing your insight. Thanks

She then started gripping about how the kids are really acting up at her place, last nite in particular. I almost said can you blame them considering how she turned their lives upside down. I just empathized with her.

Again. Nice job. You VALIDATED and EMPATHIZED, but this where the tough love comes in. She asked for THIS and THIS is all part of tearing a home apart. Wake up WAW!!!

So do you think that next time I should actually say "Can you blame them considering how their lives have been turned upside down" instead of just thinking it? She was pretty heated already, so I didn't say it because I thought it would just cause an escalation (plus I'm still waiting for my lawyer to draft up the child support stipulation that I need her to sign....)

Part of why your in this mess is because she as ALL WAS's do; she LOST RESPECT for YOU. Setting YOUR BOUNDARIES will HELP gain back that RESPECT. Not at first, but EVENTUALLY. At first she will just think YOU'RE being MEAN, but if you are CONSISTENT she will LEARN to RESPECT it. If not that is when you have to question is she the type of person you want by your side anyway. Is SHE STRONG enough to do the WORK???

She actually said that she doesn't respect me. She dropped that bomb about 4 weeks before she moved out when we were discussing child custody arrangements. This one has been nagging me because I don't know how to approach the "earning back the respect". I had grown up in Brooklyn, so I know how to earn it back via Brooklyn style, but I don't think that will work in this case....

I have been working on defining/setting my boundaries but it's surprisingly hard. My therapist has been pushing me on this, everyone here has as well. I've been reading books on it and have joined a small group at church that discusses setting boundaries (that one revolves around the book Boundaries by Townsend). No one would have ever guessed that I would have a problem setting boundaries. At work and growing up, that has never been an issue. With my wife, I don't understand why I'm struggling.....

Maybe for a GAL DB roadtrip

Just make sure it's on Sun - Tues as I will have my boys on the other days!

Thanks again for checking up on me to keep me on the path....

[confusedinpa]

Here is a question I used to asked myself before I did anything - will it help me towards my goal? If I was unsure I asked here. Sandi once blasted me and said, "and you call yourself a Coach?!"

Coach - that's a great question. I will have to tape that on my phone! One of the things that have been "helping" me is my wait at least 30 minute rule that I've been trying to live with. I broke it last nite when I responded in about 15 minutes, but generally I've been trying to wait 30 minutes to respond to text/email/voice mails (unless she says its urgent). The 30 minutes seems to give me time to process some of my anxiety so I can really decide whether I want to respond or not and how.

Open your mind and heart to knew ideas, thoughts and beliefs. DBing was the hardest thing I had ever done. I screwed up royally before I learned. The teachers are here, once you stop struggling and relax then you can swim on your own. You can handle it.

That reminds me of what one of my friends said - that this can be like downhill skiing (I'm not a skier but this is how he explained it to me). When you're goind downhill skiing, you will need to do things that may seem like the non-natural thing to do. He said that your natural reaction is to lean back on you skis but if you do that you will most likely crash and burn. The best thing to do is lean forward, down the slope.

So in this case, my natural reaction would be to chase/woo her like there is no tomorrow, but that, as many here remind me, will likely result in a crash and burn. So I need to do the opposite. Of course he is also the friend (a non-DB'er) who told me that he thinks I should chase/woo her as he is interprutting that detaching is the "natural" reaction. A little confusing, but I think I got the core of his message....

ps No caravan but we are on standby.

Hopefully you won't have to use it, unless it's the DB GAL road trip that PMA_Baby is suggesting!

[confusedinpa]

She slapped your son? Does she normally discipline them like that?

If not, then I'd make sure she's not taking out her frustrations on them.

She has NEVER done that with the 7 year old. He is her favorite, do no wrong golden child (which he usually is - a real rule follower). On the other hand, the 3 year old is on the other end of the spectrum (not even a rule breaker, but a rule maker). She has gotten really frustrated at him and yelled at him and slapped his bottom (when he was wearing diapers), but VERY infrequently.

I have noticed that over the past year she has gotten very short tempered/fused with the kids. Never paid it much attention until she dropped the bomb. Then I saw it really get short. Because of that I've really been watching mine. I haven't been perfect, but when I have, I did talk to the boys afterwards.

She still hasn't done anything to help herself in that department, so all she's doing is letting things build again in herself and since you're not there to take it out on you, I'd hate to think she's punishing them for it.

I'm concerned of her taking it out on them as well, as about 6 weeks after the bomb, before she moved out of our bedroom, she had said during one of her "pity parties" of how now that she has "baggage" she will never find the happiness that I've stolen from her. She has said that a couple of times. I didn't know how to react when she said it. I was completely suprised and disgusted by the statement.

I truly hope her appointment last nite was for therapy.

[confusedinpa]

Confused I can so relate to where you're head is at. The best thing is to focus on detaching from her. I know it's one of the most difficult things to do in the position you are in, but it really is the only chance you have.

Did you ever read the Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle? The condensed version of it, Practicing the Power of Now and the other book, Stillness Speaks were very helpful for me to keep it in the Now and not project my mind forward or back.

I'll be checking in on you.

Steady,

Thank's for the support and encouragement. My boys give me the drive to keep trying (I know my wife certainly isn't doing anything to give me reason to keep trying, but this forum is the biggest thing that is keeping me from going nuts. I don't feel like her mom or dad is really supporting/pushing her to get us back together. Ironically as they were divorced and her mom waited over 10 years since they seperated before they divorced (she kept thinking he would come back, right up to the point he got engaged to his new wife). My family and friends try to support me but they are all challenging why do I want her back since she's left me and hate to see me go through so much emotional pain.

The people here really make me feel supported, like an extended family. I wouldn't know what to do without them.

Thanks for the suggestion on the book - I thought I had a pretty extensive library but don't have that one. Guess I'm going have to hit amazon tonite.

I appreciate you dropping by and checking up on me to keep me on the path.