It's amazing how WE still find excuses for their character flaws: "I don't think he's ever had to sit down and explain to someone that something isn't working, to say to OW I want my M back." Why would it or should it be difficult for him to tell some whore that he's finished and is going back to his wife where he belongs? He didn't have any trouble or need anyone's permission to betray you, so how come now he needs mystical powers and strength to walk away from HER?
The only thing your H has to figure out is how to be a MAN. To acknowledge that he's made some horrific choices, sever all contact with OW and work on being a better H to you and father to his son. YOU are letting him know you're open to that...now he has to poop or get off the pot.
If you coddle him while he's still with OW, he'll never make a choice, he doesn't have to. T2
Sorry, I should have wrapped that 2X4 in Charmin so it wouldn't hurt to much.
I'm just a firm believer in NOT giving to much when OW is still in the pix. Ask yourself, if you had another man in your life that you were being intimate with, do you think your H would stand by while you bounced back and forth between the two of them? I think NOT. So why do you allow yourself to be the girl behind door # 2? It's NOT fair to you...and it's an easy out for him. T2
T2 I was very interested in your posting about WA spouses being emotional cripples. My wife will only say ILY in cards, or on the phone after being away for a while. In 15 years, she has always managed to avoid saying "I'm sorry." She got engaged to me as a christmas present, and still kept her own last name. I am sure that a lot of this is because of her parents getting divorced when she was 10. But I can't figure out how or even if I should try to explore this with her.
With reference to your W's inability to say she's sorry etc., you said, "I can't figure out how or even if I should try to explore this with her. "
I have found for MYSELF that they will NOT willingly become introspective. They are so dug down in their self righteousness with regard to how they 'react' to the world and to us, that they cling to their misconceptions in order to find their strength. Thier selfishness, inexcusable behaviors and hurtfulness become their defense shield. The hide behind that shield in order to keep reality and truth from hitting them squarely in the face.
We can try to coddle them, cajole them, convince them ad naseum to 'see the light' but they won't...at least NOT until something really rocks THEIR little world.
They can't/don't 'hear' what we have to say because WE are to close to them. THEY are to vulnerable around US...so we get the brunt of all their pain.
I have learned the hard way through this process that very little of what I say or do has had nearly as much impact on my H's changing, as has my H's slowly coming to see for himself, the destructiveness and dishonor of his life's choices. Those self realizations are what's impacting/changing him in some measure now, NOT what I've said or done. Oh, I think some of what I've said is now ringing in his ears, but ONLY because now he is beginning to see things for himself, on his own.
T2
Quote: If you coddle him while he's still with OW, he'll never make a choice, he doesn't have to.
Cathy, in my sitch it was a bit different as I didn't KNOW OW was still in the picture after bomb #2.
What I DO know is that CJ had one HELL of a time breaking it off with OW...she had a definite hold on him. And as long as I didn't know and couldn't object...the R continued!
CJ even said afterwards that by NOT being more suspicious or more protective of myself (as in putting my foot down...I think the actual words he used were "had you given me an ultimatum!!! ) I enabledc his r with OW to persist.
NOW, I don't buy all of this. I won't take responsibility for enabling something I didn't know about AND was his decision.
And it's nice in hindsight but who knows what an early ultimatum might have wrought? We'll never know.
Shiny, I agree, an ULTIMATUM may be what 'rocks their world' but that ultimatum is something one has to live with once it's made. It should be made, but after the betrayed has mustered enough internal strength to live with the outcome if it doesn't bode well for them. JMHO...which ain't worth much. T2
Not worth much??? T2! Do I have to climb through the computer and kick your butt??
You're exactly right! I couldn't have issued an ultimatum at that time as I WASN'T ready to live with the possibility that CJ might have chosen to run! Part of me KNEW things weren't right, there were very suspicious behaviours etc...I wasn't ready to confront him head on.
Ultimatums, LRT's really are for the last resort...and the strong!
I was just thinking about this when you said "what would rock their world" and it would be the ultimatum, but I don't want to have to give an ultimatum. You're right, if I do I have to able to follow through. At this point I'm not ready to follow through.
I am working on myself and become stronger, where now when he does something or says something, i.e., giving OW a b-day party a few weeks ago, I have to ask myself these two questions:
1. If we are getting divorced it doesn't matter. 2. If we are staying together it doesn't matter.
I want H to decide what he's doing, he is waiting for me to decide I know that, but I don't want to decide. I want him to say we're Ding or he's coming back.
As long as I remain pleasant, act as if, not let him push my buttons, keep doing 180's he really doesn't have a reason to not come back. Anyway that's the way I feel.
My H is like T2's, quote T2:
I've realized that in some ways, I'm expecting him to be a man he NEVER was. The truth is, he's always kept a certain emotional distance between us, he's always kept his guard up. He's never been a hearts and flowers kind of guy, he's always thought of his needs, wants, feelings first before ANYONE elses. So I shouldn't be shocked that he was capable of an affair, I shouldn't be disappointed that he's still closed up in many ways because that is who he's always been and if that can't change then I'm not sure it'll be enough for me anymore. I'd rather be 'alone' without him, then to feel alone with him....I've already been there, done that for too many years.
I'm still letting all posts from today sink in and will have more later. S is overtired and I need to take him for a ride, he'll fall asleep for the night.
I was sitting on the couch reading your post and all of a suddent it hit me, this was me, an emotional cripple and have been most of most of my life until "my world was rocked." Selfishness, hurtful unexcusable behaviors, nastiness towards my H, my family and others. I had a chip on my shoulder a mile wide. I resented the whole world and if someone didn't like me the way I was than too bad that was their problem. I was awful. Here I'm so focused on H's bad behavior and this is where I was just six short months ago..am I a hypocrite or what?
This hits so close to home and I've changed the wording a little:
Quote: I have learned the hard way through this process that very little of what anybody said or did had had nearly as much impact on my changing, as has me slowly coming to see for myself , the destructiveness and dishonor of my life's choices. Those self realizations are what's impacting/changing me in some measure now, NOT what anybody's said or done. Oh, I think some of what people have said is now ringing in my ears, but ONLY because now I am beginning to see things for myself , on my own.
If what happened to me hadn't happened I wouldn't be the person I am now becoming and liking. All these years H and I have been together, I knew deep down inside that I needed to change, but I was too lazy, didn't want to have to do it and besides why should I change....oh my gosh.
I don't know what I'm getting at but I myself came so close to being a WA, but I just didn't have the guts to do it or didn't put myself in a position for it to happen. If H hadn't walked away who knows what would have happened, maybe I would have been the one to find someone else, god knows I thought about it enough. Just by being thoughtless and uncaring towards H I didn't have to WA either, I pushed him out the door and made him do the dirty work....what a mess.
) I enabledc his r with OW to persist.
