I know his whole story, how a 'DBer' on this board who was 'saving his marriage' befriended him and eventually hit on his XW and got her to go to England to be with him.
The anger, the rage. She makes FIB's STBX look like a saint because Cherishher gave her money and tried to DB her while she raged at him.
Anyway, like you said, this seems to happen a lot more in California but maybe it's just because of the size of the population.
Kerry, no it isn't Striver. That did make me laugh though. I was reading this thread again and it seems so long ago.
Hopefully Cherrishher will be able to find a chance to come back sometime.
Needless to say he doesn't feel the same way now as then. As Frank D stated about comparing Cherrish's XW and FIB's STBXW I'm wondering if there sisters. ;-o
Does anyone have experience with a site Fathers and Families?
cire
Me 48 X's vary S 27 S 18 Back with high school sweety after 30 years..
Cire2Cherrishher, I am NOT clear on why Cherishher is not posting here himself...but anyhow,
FULL DISCLOSURE I am a L and a female, live in Cal, and assume that is why I was asked to come to this site. Yes, I know something about this but am NOT giving out legal advice here. FYI I also get REALLY tired of the L bashing here, as if lawyers are supposed to assume OUR clients are lying, and also assumes we NEVER tell our clients to shape up, AND it assumes that we are the "juries" or judges, which we are not, we are advocates and the judges and juries have THEIR own roles and we have ours....
For the record, since the bashing L's and women comments annoyed me, here's a random factoid....most of the time I hear male clients complain, it is about money IN SOME FORM...whether it costs too much for the L's, or they pay too much in support, or the assets were not divided right or their property was poorly assessed and calculated...whatever....it is rarely about seeing their kids or getting c, or religoius upbringing, or their (dad's) choice to start/stop drinking or their own flaws, or wanting more time with the kids without money attached as a part of the request for time....
I think you ought to know how some complainst are likely to be viewed by a COURT, which really is what matters here, right? FIB's thread is worth reading if you get a chance and I know you are pressed for time. But lest you label me as a man hater or dismiss my comments, DON'T, b/c I've taken a lot of time to find and read this thread....and put a lot of thought into my reply. (Probably too much).
Well, half the time the client does not want to spend real money on what should be the most important thing in his/her life, but then complains that they got half ass counsel. okay...I REALIZE YOU ARE NOT SAYING THAT[/b]...but some of the other posters annoy me with that whining about money stuff.
YES of course Go ahead and See the "Father's Rights" groups, and HIRE THEM if you want, or get a referral, I have no problem with that!! Why would I? I just posted to FIB about a childhood friend of mine who lost custody of her child, and SHOULD have...YES I DO Believe it's all about what's best for the kids.
So for now, enough about how "men get screwed" in California. Especially coming from men who are in VERY different situations, but who cling to the sympathetic males here, b/c they want to identify with them; it's a hackneyed cliche that is both inaccurate and so annoying. BUT Since I came to this site to help...
How can I help? God knows I'm not interested in a "biotch session" about lawyers, the legal system or horrible ex wives, but I am a mom and a DBer and have had some good legal experiences here, and seen some horrible ones here too going both ways btwbut HEY, the idea that somehow the court will "glean" your friend's sympathetic sitch from the universe, is incorrect. He needs to speak up. The courts won't guess.
I can tell you that economic realities do matter if they are real and not of your making, or your friend's,AND IF THE COURT KNOWS about it, I can tell you that saying "F-" to the court is a very bad idea, and no matter how justified it may feel, the "GREAT REASONS FOR IT" will NEVER be heard if he bails, or gives them the finger. I KNOW THIS FOR A FACT...okay? I can tell you that no alimony should be paid to someone living with OP, if there's a cohabitation clause in the div decree, so if that is really happening, let the court know. Again, speak up cherrisher...speak up...
Now I'm about to say something I really want you to hear...
It's just idiotic and wrong to complain about women who withhold their children from their fathers for money, NOT B/C IT DOES NOT HAPPEN, BUT B/C IT IS AGAINST THE LAW -- AND IT IS NOT THE COURT'S FAULT THAT IT HAPPENS IF THE COURTS DONT' KNOW ABOUT IT... so it's as if you are complaining about how "1st degree murder is fine" b/c it happens. It is NOT fine B/C IT HAPPENS...IT IS WRONG, BUT YOU HAVE TO ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT TO STOP IT....or become part of the problem and then blame the court system....Likewise, I tell people not to complain about the crazy jury verdicts they read about IF they also try to get out of jury duty whenever they're called. Trust me, you don't want to call ME about getting out of jury duty... You know, we are all part of "the system" so we all have to do our part.
As for how lousy the ex wives are....look, rather than compete for the "Biggest Losers" spouse contest, let's figure out what the courts FEAR from EX H's... so you can anticipate it and prepare for it... and then we'll discuss how YOU can look better... first--- Courts fear/dislike fathers who deliberately low ball their income projections to SHARE MUCH LESS than half their assets with their spouses and kids, or say that they are too sad and upset to be at their earning best, (so their kids have to suffer?)?? OR they want to try out a new career that makes a whole lot less money but is easier and for that, THEIR KIDS SUFFER?? (See the COURTS don't want the rest of us, i.e., the state, to pay for that guy's kids b/c that guy "feels bad" or "wants something new" in his career and now can't pay for his kid' tuition, etc) for the courts it IS often about money and holding the BIO parents responsible and statistically that 's an issue more often with men...just the way it is,
--Here is an example or two from REAL LIFE and not the extreme cases you read about in the news...such as the Colonel in the Army who's wife trekked around the world for him for 27 years, with their 4 kids, moving ever 2-3 years, ALONE A LOT, raising the kids, not having her own career or if so, having to quit every time a promotion for HER MIGHT have happened, who was the Volunteer of the Year 7 times and helped her h get HIS promotions, who knew what her h faced in combat--which was tough as hell and a whole other issue--and who went with the chaplain to inform women they had just become widows with children....who never got paid a cent for HER work, or her time, or her counsel, but perhaps b/c of what her COLONEL h went through in combat or b/c he's a MLCer, or became self centered or WHATEVER.... now COLONEL DAD has OW who is much younger and maybe has her own career (b/c she is a junior officer herself and yes, adultery is still a crime in the military but nothing happens if no one says anything and if bio mom said anything and her h lost his job, she'd lose her income too, only she does not yet know that her h will leave AND div her AND not pay her anything...) and OW comes without all the "drag of being over 35", OR having kids, etc and the COLONEL has a bum knee from a bike accident, (not combat), so now he is retiring AND due to his limp, his "disability" is NOT divisible b/c it is not considered a "retirement pension" OR a marital asset, so the stbxw will get half the assets, ie half the $33k in their IRA, and NO retirement for HER....oh well....and oops, the kids are screwed too, b/c after all, disability is disability, NOT retirement and NOT = to a pension...so they'll get to live with their mom's brother and HIS family and get...nothing.
B/C remember, their dad is "disabled"...but when he comes to visit the kids, he suddenly DOES HAVE SOME money (and is "Disneyland Daddy") but the older kids are not as fazed by that and remember what it was like before OW, until he buys one of them a car...and that DOES faze them a bit, and the little one IS impressed that the new step mommy has a LOT of fun time, (OW step mom works from home as a realtor but her income did not count as they were not "her" kids,and she had th deductible expenses of the nice home "office" and the "prescribed hottub and pool" so she can play a lot more than their "Real" mom, who works 2 jobs NOT from home, AND bio mom needed food stamps for months while applying for jobs and looking to save enough $$ for a security deposit for a place of their own). Bio mom gets assistance for housing which the judge sees and does not like but can do nothing about.
While COLONEL dad wanted the kids on vacation times he also told them to write him a certain # of times per month, in exchange For an allowanceof his choosing...what kid wouldn't do that? How generous of him! Everytime the bio mom tried to discipline their kids, they'd call their loving daddy who would be soo sympathetic. He thought their bio mom was "crazy"...Dad lived in a nice big home, which OW/stepmom NEEDED for her "Work"...not a shared townhouse...so naturally the kids LOVED Their visits, but soon some of the older kids asked to LIVE with daddy. WTH? Oops!
Daddy and OW/Step mom did not count on that..."No room in the inn" was the answer, and boy did that hurt those kids. To HER great credit, bio mom said NOT a word of criticism about their dad. Just "so sorry you are hurt" to her kids..(Bio mom was so grateful that she got to keep all the kids together even if it was on food stamps in public housing and even if she had been living in Field Grade Officer housing only 2 years earlier....) that was 8 years ago. I lost touch with her but I never forgot her h. Or the OW/step mom. (Wondered how they lived with themselves. No I don't blame any [b]Lawyer but I guess I can see why it's easier to blame L's than the parent of our children. Having a co parent do something like this reflects on us too I suppose. Don't know exactly why but no one ever feels like a winner in Div court, and L's get the blame a lot. Most likely to be murdered type of L? Divorce lawyers...).
ANYHOW, THE COURTS did not like it when the bio mom applied for food stamps nor did they like it when the welfare office said the dad made too much money for HER to qualify for aid, and the kids did not qualify for grants for college, since their dad made too much money, and his "disability" was not combat related (that part of the law has changed, thank God).
So courts will see that Cherrisher remarried and probably count his w's income BUT he can have the bf's cohabitation and income factored in too IF he tells the Court!
Courts also don't like dads who were workaholics who can't name their kids friends, or favorite "anything", and then when it comes time to pay support, based on time with the kids, they suddenly become "great dads" who want FULL custody of their kids so they won't have to pay any, or as much support, and that's a sad fact, AND guess what?
3/4 of men do NOT pay what they are ordered to pay in child support, nationally, which is why the states finally passed some "deadbeat dad" laws. (No, I don't like the name of that bill, as it suggests all non custodial women pay their share of support and that all dads are deadbeats, just saying what it is called).
If your ex w has a bf living with her THAT'S WRONG (B/C either cohabitators are NOT supposed to be in the home with the kids and OR if they are, then your court documents should have reflected that cohabitation was going to be considered remarriage and alimony would stop!!) sooo, what's up with that?
It is another example of what is supposed to happen and what is NOT supposed to happen and what DOES happen.
If your L did not put the cohabitation clause in your div, that sucks, but it is NOT fatal. I think You can raise it now my friend, and you should. Hope you are right in that assertion of yours though. SOOOO, YES hire a new L, a specialist. I know this costs a lot of money but so does this "crap" AND this is sooo stressful as you well know. Consider it money well spent if you can put the stake through the vampire's heart and NOT have this crap continue to haunt you forever
What I'm getting from all this is a lot of anger, some male bonding and egging on, and double and triple hearsay. Your friend cherrisher needs friends SECOND to needing a NEW L. Raise some money if you want. This "witholding" of the kids is a tiresome complaint b/c it means TO ME that he has not raised it before, or somehow ALWAYS lost in court??? I mean, really I don't want to overstep here as I am NOT giving out legal advice here and cannot for obvious reasons.
But if there is parental alienation, or if she is cohabitating, or if he really has lost a lot of income not due to his own misconduct, AND his new wife has little to no money, AND the kids wont' live with him....that's an awful lot of bad luck - but it still screams out for some court intervention. Ask about moving the dates or what happens for noncompiance (dont' think he wants to know that)
IN THIS STATE parental alienation is a big bad thing so if the kids are not brainwashed, why won't they come see him? WAIT, I don't know how old they are AND I dont' think we're going to get anywhere with this type of intermediary stuff.
Just have cherishher get a good L or ask the father's group for references if they won't take his case. He might be able to get on a payment plan if he has a good credit payment history And if they do what he hopes, he'll SAVE $$ AND see his kids more. Make sense? He has to make this about providing for and seeing the kids AND if he gets to see them more, (he MAY be able to pay less in support) he can rebuild his R's with them. Moving away does not look good btw, to a court. I know he felt he had to or whatever, but it looks like he left his kids...Counter those past actions with actions that show your interest in THEM and time with them now. I'd say more, but then I'll worry about the whole legal advice issue and don't want to go down that road. Just get in touch with some fathers groups OR a good div L. Frankly if you are half the guy you sound like, you won't need a father's group specifically, unless it's going to help financially. It may. I don't know. But I sure think this is worth "finishing off" in the sense that I'd want to know she can't ever come back and keep hacking away.
I do urge others not to project too much of HIS sitch into yours or YOURS into his...it is easy to do but not helpful. To any parties.
And cherisher, YOU need to come and speak up for YOURSELF and YOUR KIDS and the fact that are not 'here', MAY be a symptom of what is really happening.
Maybe he moved on and doesn't want to keep on dealing with "his old family"....(I KNOW THERE'S A REACTION TO THAT STATEMENT...which I intended.)
Just THINK and then SEE how it COULD look to a court --if a guy moves away and then back, not b/c of the kids or missing them but b/c of money, and says he 'earns less now" --but you earned enough to move away with new OW, and yet you complain your ex w "won't LET" you see your kids000 come on...
YOU moved away and blah blah blah...just saying IF YOU DON'T SHOW UP FOR YOURSELF OR YOUR KIDS OR TIME WITH THEM, What do you think it'll look like to the Court? Forget about your ex w, or how unfair this is for now. If her life were so great she would not be hounding you even now. What matters is you and your life now, and your kids', so SHOW UP...
j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I spoke with Cherrishher this morning and tonight and he did sound better this evening. this morning stress was eating at him and i suggested that maybe he might post something here as a way of getting a new POV.
He has no access at the moment and asked if I might post for him. I do believe he will try and get here himself in the near future.
25 if you actually followed his history he does try. he will have his kids in a few weeks for the summer, unless she acts up again. I probably came across wrong by not detailing that she acts a lot like FIB's wife at times. Very hard to predict.
Cherrish had to take a job and he had a choice of 2. One was in Germany, obviously not conducive for visitation and the job he took is in AZ. With the economy and his field of expertice he had to take this pay cut to work.
I don't think he dislikes his L it just gets stressful when he does these motions and gets shot down without the judge even wanting to hear them. The judge puts it off till later.
The cohabitation clause is news to me and that's why he needs insight from others. Thank you again 25 and others i will pass on
Believe me when I say Cherrishher is a great dad and loves his kids immensly! He will try and do this the best way possible for his kids sake.
Keep the advice coming i'm sure he will use it.
cire
Me 48 X's vary S 27 S 18 Back with high school sweety after 30 years..
I recognize your "name" and I trust your judgement and assessment that he's a stand up guy. My wording and tone was harsher than I might personally feel, to prepare HIM for another POV since he's not exactly having great luck in the courts AND i HAVE to wonder if he has just gotten so fed up and tired that he pulled the old "head in the sand -if I don't say or do anything maybe ex/court will go away" theory which guess what? IT IS NOT WORKING WELL...geez...
IF he is not happy with his DIV L...well, he needs a new one. Hey They are NOT married! Oh AND no I don't do that type of law.
What I know of D law is either from the law school basics and or what I learned/did years ago, family experiences & when I had to take those cases (gross) AND OR what I learned from MY sitch recently in this area. I researched my sitch a lot. But I also NEVER DREAMED of representing myself and am always amused AND bugged when I hear of couples who are SO furious with each other, but are also saying "we'll handle the D w/o L's b/c why should we GIVE all our money to L's?" Gee, not that div law isn't super fun, but if you two are getting along so well, why the heck are you getting divorced? OH yeah, b/c one of you is a liar, or worse, And you will end up spending way more b/c it'll take longer and there will be redundancies, and oh by the way if there are CHILDREN involved, why take that risk??? OMG why not do some surgery yourself and not pay a doctor to do it, and SAVE MONEY? Oh, b/c it's so risky and such an important event? YEAH, kind of like M and D...
When I was looking for a div L, I asked a few people this- "do you know anyone who got div, who was happy or satisfied with THEIR L, or thinks their X's L was really good?" I preferred people who were all through with their div and not still IN it so they could see how it all worked out in the end....and I got 3 names and went to meet them all, but knew when I met the one I chose, that she would be the one. She answered ALL my questions and allayed my fears AND probably is a big reason we are NOT divorced. The info she gave me, and her assessments, made me feel better. My Fears and staying M? NO...feelings of safety so I know I'm M b/c I want to be, I choose to be. Not 'stuck and M', but choosing to stay and work on the M...there's a big diff.
Unlike some L's, mine told me that she had "hopes for our M" and did not think I should file for DIV but instead file for sep to protect the property as H was full blown "investing" in heroes ideas du jour, etc. But she knew I loved him and in her opinion there was hope, and she thought h would take the Div filing too hard and would lessen chances of recon and she was probably right. She also watched out for me and gave me some tough love advice about finances...but was NEVER sleazy or nasty or sneaky. Know what I mean? Anyhow...I have nothing but good stuff to say about her and she was referred to me by someone else who felt the same way.
Oh, as for costs, hey, I say "don't skimp on cosmetic surgery, wills, divorces or fire extinguishers" b/c when those things fail, it's too late to fix. (Wills that don't work, are exceedinly hard to repair when you are gone B/C YOU ARE GONE...so no, I'm not a fan of do it yourself stuff if it is very very important. I HAVE done drywall myself though...) and sure, if you only own a shirt and a bike helmet, a DIY will is fine. Same goes for divorces of those without any property or kids...how many are there? With this man's kids and this type of div history, cherr needs to do the "Put the stake thru the vampire's heart" b/c she'll come back again and again to suck out more blood if she is able, so he needs to legally END this...to the extent possible. If he wins the lottery (or if she does), ie IF THINGS CHANGE SUBSTANTIALLY for any party, yes you can get things modified. That is always true. Cohabitation clauses are very common now. I didn't like them then b/c I felt that my "alimony" was not "alimony" but restitution for putting h thru all that schooling but the law here is what it is. IOW, I felt, "so what" if I remarried? H owed ME not b/c i can't support myself and need a man to do so, but b/c I enabled/supported H to get where HE is....luckily, did not come to that.
Anyhow, hope this helps clear up some things for him and yes CHERRH you need to post here so we know you are not skipping off to join some revolutionary group or live on the streets...
Hey also, it is okay to change L's. It really is. Has anything gone your way, legally? If not, if you really feel that the case was fairly obvious OR SHOULD HAVE been, then switch Ls or at least consult another one or two or 6...
good luck (( j ))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Do you know whether Cherrher ever got the posts? I spent a crazy amount of time on them, based on a request from someone else. I know he had trouble getting on the internet or something, but I'd like to know if he actually read them. Only so I know whether to monitor anymore. Thanks, j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
