Magnificent

[mishka422]

I'm loving this discussion. Who knew that my bizarre sitch would lead to such deep, philosophical talk.

Mike, I think the way I would define friendship in this particular case would be this. We can be friendly, kind, considerate, and share innocuous information. I'm not talking a deep friendship here, just friendly. More than civil, less than close. Does that make sense? I know it's weird. You're right in the sense that a friend wouldn't do what they have done to us. However, in forgiving I also had to make a decision to harbor pain in my heart forever or let it go for my own good. That didn't mean that I had to let go of the history of our R and all the good we did have. Could I trust him to not destroy me again in a R or M? NO! I'm not stupid. I can be compassionate, considerate, and kind. That is what I choose to model for my son. It makes him happy to have his dad nearby.

Now....on another note. Just had a call from my cousin asking me where Gabe was today. I told her I had no clue, not my job to know. He left before I left this morning. She had just seen him at a fast food place in town and decided to follow him. He is at the broom's place and took food in to her. Yeah, ok, whatever. So, apparently they are together still and he is playing me for free room and board? No idea. At least he's been working around the house and being with Marc. I don't care what he's doing in his personal life really, I just wish I was clued in. C'est la Vie!

[ernest88]

damn..I'm actually trying to get away from this but keep getting in deeper and deeper..LOL

Who knew that my bizarre sitch would lead to such deep, philosophical talk.

I'm not very good with the philosophy part of the discussion..

Mike, I think the way I would define friendship in this particular case would be this. We can be friendly, kind, considerate, and share innocuous information. I'm not talking a deep friendship here, just friendly. More than civil, less than close. Does that make sense? I know it's weird. You're right in the sense that a friend wouldn't do what they have done to us. However, in forgiving I also had to make a decision to harbor pain in my heart forever or let it go for my own good. That didn't mean that I had to let go of the history of our R and all the good we did have. Could I trust him to not destroy me again in a R or M? NO! I'm not stupid. I can be compassionate, considerate, and kind. That is what I choose to model for my son. It makes him happy to have his dad nearby.

and I get all that..witht he exception of the last sentence..I understand the forgiving..not too close and all that..
I guess I wonder how Marc percieves the return of Gabe...see I wonder if this gives Marc false hope that a reconciliation is taking place?? From what i read you don't see that as possible..so i wonder what Marc thinks??

So, apparently they are together still and he is playing me for free room and board? No idea. At least he's been working around the house and being with Marc. I don't care what he's doing in his personal life really, I just wish I was clued in.

I think you are clued in...he's got a soft place to land

[mishka422]

Yeah, you're right. He knows he can play me because I'm a sympathetic sap. He's getting everything he wants with no trouble to himself. I know what I've opened myself up to but I have been very clear that this is temporary only. I wonder why he's not living with the broom since he's over there now. WTH is that about? I think I have a right to ask. What do you think?

As far as Marc, he has been told from the start that this is temporary and that his dad will be leaving the house again as soon as he finds something else. Now, if that something else is going back to the broom, then so be it. I am scared that Marc is going to see that as a normal pattern though. "Hey, when things are rough and you don't want to work on it......run away." How do I counteract that?

Please Mike...don't go away. I really value your opinion and appreciate your input. You get me thinking.

[naej]

I'm loving this discussion.

Yes me too, although now I find myself conflicted.
When you first posted what had happened I thought wow, brave lady and sumised I would have probably done the same.
Then when reading Mike's post I found myself noddding in agreement. I have often said I choose my friends very carefully, loyalty, and truthfulness being of great importance to me. I am not so sure if it is the sex's who are different in attitudes or just individual personalities.

Now having read your last post Mish, I would be furious and feel like once again I had been taken for a ride-maybe I am no good at turning the other cheek.
The big difference would be that my kids (slightly older than yours is now,when it happened) would not have been in the same room as their Dad let alone been happy to have him under the same roof. They loved him dearly but knew said OP and hated what he had done to the family b/c of that.
Gosh they even stipulated if he helped with my house move they would not come. They felt it condoned his behaviour and gave him the it's ok to have an affair ,wreck our lives but come back and play happy families when it suits,message.

I really can see your son is/feels the opposite, I know he has difficulties so if he is happy then as mothers we are happy so this must be a really tough one on you.

Just a thought but how will Marc re act when Dad moves off again?

[mishka422]

Just a thought but how will Marc re act when Dad moves off again?

No clue. I hope he will roll with it like he has everything else. Marc doesn't have a strong sense of right and wrong so he doesn't see the brutality of what his dad has done. All he knows is that he loves his dad, wants to be with him, and everything else doesn't matter. He doesn't show emotion much. I, on the other hand, am an emotional mess most of the time. Everything I feel shows immediately on my face. I'm only good at putting on the mask when I'm prepared to do so. When things occur without warning, my face is an open book!

I am furious. I have picked up my phone so many times now to text him and ask why the heck he's living in my house if he's still with the broom. I feel I do have the right to ask though. I'm not sure how to approach the subject.

[ernest88]

He knows he can play me because I'm a sympathetic sap.

I think lots of WAS's here...especailly the men, play the female LBS's..it's basically abuse IMO...the male WAS's will play on the emotions of the female LBS IMO...because they have an idea that they can and get by with it...because they have done it before..

I know what I've opened myself up to but I have been very clear that this is temporary only.

how temporary?? In other words he must be out by what date?? I think you set firm boundaries..I think you tell him you can stay until this day..then your out or I'll have you removed..

I wonder why he's not living with the broom since he's over there now. WTH is that about? I think I have a right to ask. What do you think?

no i don't think you have a right to know IMO.. you are divorced..you opened your home to him to help him out..he has no right to know what you do in your life and you have no right to know what is up in his..unless it affects Marc..

How do I counteract that?

I don't think you couteract that...I think you find a way to parent Marc and show him good examples on your own and Gabe will make his life with Marc what it is..Marc will see his dad's true colors one day..

Please Mike...don't go away. I really value your opinion and appreciate your input. You get me thinking.

ahh hell I ain't going anywhere..

[BobbiJo]

It depends on your position. Since you are not interested in reconciling, then if you want to help the father of your child and offer him a place to live, leave it at that.

However if there were hopes of reconciliation and he moved back, and then you knew he was still hanging with the broom, I would not want him living there anymore. All depends on the boundaries/terms you have set for him and for you...

[mishka422]

I don't have a right to ask why he isn't living with the broom since they are still seeing each other? Why not? I don't care if they are together or not....I care about him sponging off me just because the ho wanted money. If that is the reason then he can get his butt out! I saw an emotionally broken man who needed a hand up so I gave it. If he's playing me for a free ride and not because of any real desire to stay with his son then he can just get his butt out. I need to know what the deal is, but I'm going to wait until I see what he's up to. I won't ask him outright, but if he lies to me about something he's been doing today then I'm going to call him on the carpet about it.

[ernest88]

I saw an emotionally broken man who needed a hand up so I gave it.

and I think that's the answer to your question..I think that's why you should not ask..what is up..I think if you respond and ask..showing emotion..then you are sending Gabe mixed messages...

a user is a user....at this point all this will do is add drama to your life...

I would be willing to bet that the deal is this...him and the broom had a little falling out a while back...and he laid a, "im going back to Cali on you" he knows your sympathetic....shortly after that they made up a bit i believe..and she tossed him again..he realizes.."I can't go back to Cali, no money, no way..etc, etc.." so he looks for that soft spot..and you being the person you are offer up a spot for him..thinking he won't take it but he fools you and does..you tell him it's temporary?? I'm assuming..until he gets on his feet?? To him temporary might mean 6 months ....meanwhile..he's still cake eating while living with his ex...

I bet if you call him out..he will say he will do something to himself, or he's going to Cali...or SOMETHING dramatic...

patterns Mish...patterns..these guys are predictable i think..especailly to someone on the outside looking in..IMO..

These WAS's have it made...they cake eat..they get the best of both worlds while 95% of the time paying no child support...

set some boundaries....

[mishka422]

patterns Mish...patterns..these guys are predictable i think..especailly to someone on the outside looking in..IMO..

OMG! You are right. It is a pattern and I missed it. In my stupid, bass ackward mind I didn't catch it. So, in other words, now I've stuck myself in a situation I have no graceful way of exiting. How do I set boundaries now? It feels too late for that. I have to just let him keep sponging off me until he gets a better deal and leaves again still with no support for his son.

I swear......you would think I would have learned a long time ago to never offer kindness to him. My empathetic ways will kill me someday.

It's probably from my complete lack of self-respect and self-esteem. That has to be why I never see what I'm doing as harmful to myself. Grrrrr.....there is no way to stop this is there? Good grief!

K said something on her thread and it started me thinking. She said that she had an exciting, happy, fulfilling life before and wants that again. I realized upon reading that I had never had any of those things and have no idea what that would even look like. That's just sad! My life was just what it was...ho hum. Existing. It still is. I think to myself "what do I want to do? How do I want to live my life? What will make me feel happy?" When I think about that I draw a total blank. I have no idea. The sad fact is, I don't think I've ever been completely happy and fulfilled so I have no idea what it would take to get there. My fear is that I'll never know what that is because I have no vision. YUCK! WTH do I do now?