Is my H in MLC

[Chel]

Hello.

I was posting in "newly separated" as H dropped bomb on 5/16/09; however, H is still here and the posts I've written and rec'd feedback from indicate my H may be in MLC.

I am so very confused! When H dropped bomb I went into begging and pleading that day and felt terrible the following day. Than I picked myself up and got back on the DB'ing horse and talked no R. H talked no R and guess what H responded and even actually seemed himself for a couple of days. In fact H said it was the best two days we've had in a long time. I know my attitude contributed; however, H also was communicating with me and not focusing on leaving that is why it went well. So those days ended but nothing has gotten worse, just treading water and walking on egg shells.

H has been unhappy for a long time and last year he started communicating with a couple of people from Montreal online and they invited him to visit. Was hesitant but let him go we work and live together so I had hoped that making contact outside our marriage, etc. may give him some happiness. However, after he came back you could tell that he was interested in them being his friends and not introducing me, etc. He visited a couple of more times and than last Thanksgiving started telling me he would like to go live in Montreal and have more friends/people around him that were not so judgmental, etc. So he went to visit again around New Year's Eve and was there again just recently for a week in April. Each time he came back he claimed his love for me and wanting our M to work. However, H dropped the bomb 5/16/09 he wanted to move to Montreal; but, H has not left nor made any plans to do so. So, I have not been talking R, but I am going crazy inside wondering what is going through his mind.

I have been reading about MLC, the website recommended to me http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com, is very helpful and I read some of it and I can link some of his behavior to MLC; but am still hesitant if H is in a MLC yes or no. H is not exhibiting usual MLC signs of OW. FYI, we did go through an OW about 10+ years ago and this particular situation H is in now is not similar to that behavior. Also, could H have been in a MLC that far back or is H in one now - very confused!

H tells me he loves me, H does say some not so nice things but overall is respectful and still staying; however, he does have angry modes, modes of wanting to touch and modes of not wanting to be together and short with me. Am I ready to ride this roller coaster which I understand can be years or do I take a direct approach of presenting MLC issues to him and tell him that is what I think he is going through?

I don't think H is going to bring up R talk anytime soon, is this okay? Or, can I bring up R when I feel like it - I would like to find out what the hell is going on but also understand from reading MLC H might not know what the hell is going on...

Why is H staying?

Thanks for listening,

M 42 years
H 41 years
Married 16 years; together 22 years
No Kids
Dropped Bomb 5/16/09
H Still here

[peacetoday]

Hi
sorry you find yourself here but it is a good place to come for support and information
your H is about the right age for MLC
many mlcers do not leave immediately..they waffle back and forth testing the new waters (OW) while sitting on the fence art home
my XH stayed 4 months after bomb
many others stay longer
some leave immediately
it is recommennded to do NO R talks
probably nothing has changed within their mind since last talk
if it is MLC it will take a very long time
books are helpful
jim conway or sally conway wrote a few books on mlc
therapy is helpful especially for LBS
it wont usually help to tell the mlcwer he is in crises
they cant see it
most of us have probably tried in the beginning but it doesnt help
nothing much of anything helps
to turn most of them around
it is a crises and they have to go it aslone
many of them think the problems lie in the M and not in themselves so they go hoping to find utopia
many of them become self destructive and pick OW who may be destructive as well
they blow thru lots of money
they become opposite of who they were
they lie constantly
they drink/use drugs
so
be aware you many not see these signs for a while
I didnt realize my XH had secret creit cards and was blowing our business into th grouns
he was a rational man dedicayted to us before MLC
so protect your assets
and strap on
its quite a ride
pain- growth- grief- letting go- transformation
peace

[Dawn of Hope]

I second everything Peace said.

Except for your H being a few years younger, and there being no obvious OW in your case at present, your stats are similar to mine from a year or so ago...similar ages, lengths of M and being together, no kids...

My H, who was one of the sweetest and most patient and tolerant and loving people I knew, for the first 15 years or so that we were together, started showing signs of MLC at least 8 years ago (when he had his first EA), although I didn't recognize them as such until much more recently. He didn't move out for over a year (13 months) after the bomb, all during which he was openly carrying on with OW. He kept doing more and more hurtful things, which I think was because he subconsciously wanted me to kick him out or kill myself (I have a long history of suicidal depression), so he could tell himself that the implosion of our M wasn't his fault because I was the one who ended things (I called his bluff, and didn't do either of those things despite all of his provocation, so he had to make the decision to leave on his own). He lied constantly, spent $500/month on OW while complaining loudly about our financial problems, stopped touching me in any way on purpose (even though we were sleeping in the same bed...on opposite sides of it), spent all of his waking hours (when at home) in the basement talking to OW (minimum 2 hours a day, every single day, except when he was actually with her in person)...all while being coolly polite to me. I came to see that he treated me like a relative that he was obligated to be polite to even though he didn't like me at all.

I tell you all this not to make you feel sorry for me but to show you just what happens to these MLCers. I have not had any hint of restoration of my M to date, but I've been at this long enough (and been on these boards and seen other people's varied sitches long enough) that I at least have some idea of what you can do to avoid making things worse (you CANNOT make him better if he is in MLC--all you can do is avoid making him worse).

--Do NOT confront him or criticize him about anything unless it is a life-or-death issue.

--Do NOT talk to him about MLC; most MLCers don't believe in it and will just get mad if you try to tell them that's what's happening.

--Do NOT bring up R/M or question him about it if he brings it up.

--Do NOT try to defend or make excuses for yourself or anything you have done or any criticism he may have of you, no matter how ridiculous. This sort of thing will fall on deaf ears, or if not deaf, increasingly angry.

--Do NOT try to get him to go to counseling or M seminars, read books on M or MLC, or basically do anything to put pressure on him to fix himself or the M. Leave him strictly alone in this regard, or I can guarantee that it will backfire on you eventually. Oh, and do NOT let him (or anyone) find out about this place anytime soon, because it may strip you of a major support system if he (or anyone else you know) is able to find you on here.

--Do NOT ask anyone else to talk to him about any of the above, for the same reason that you shouldn't do so either--he has to work through the confusion and mess in his head entirely on his own. Nobody else can do a &*(@#$%^ thing to help him progress faster, and criticism will just make him more stuck and stubborn and prolong the process.

--Coordinating with the previous item, do NOT share details of what he's doing with the whole world. Try to keep the details to yourself except on these boards, with professionals (therapist, minister, DB coach), and maybe with one trustworthy friend. It can be tempting to bad-mouth him to other people and get lots of support, but keep in mind that 1) What you said will probably get back to him eventually; 2) What you tell the other person may be impossible for them to forgive your H for in case you reconcile, which would be awkward at the very least; and 3) The more other people know about the sitch, the harder it is for him to get past the embarrassment and try reconciliation with you--it makes it easier for him to give up and walk away permanently.

--Do NOT fall into the trap of making the same mistakes he is making. Just because he is _____ (lying, cheating, yelling, baiting you, being manipulative, spending every dime, or whatever) does not make it okay for you to do it too. Don't sink to his level. Hold your head up and live with integrity.

--Do NOT try to solve his problems. He may be acting like a teenager, but he is a grown man and it will not help your R for you to swoop in and try to save him, like SuperMommy or something. Be nice, be kind...but wait for him to ask for help or advice, and be prepared to wait for a long time.

*****Now that you know what NOT to do, what should you do instead?

--Detach from his drama (this takes a LOT of practice and time, but work on it).

--GAL (get a life). Rediscover the parts of you that you liked which went missing along the way. Consider this whole horrible experience to be a major incentive for making yourself into a better person...not for him, but for YOU (I know it's hard, but it is really important, because if you don't make the changes for YOU, they won't stick, and you will be worse off, I can promise you). We all know how hard this is at first, but work on finding healthy ways to make yourself feel good and boost your self-esteem REGARDLESS of what he's doing.

--Work on fixing the things he has complained about that are within your control; apologize IF (and only if) you believe he has a legitimate complaint. Fix what you can; let go of the rest. Forgive yourself and make it better, to whatever extent you can.

--When he talks, listen and validate, saying as little as possible. Be calm. Keep it as positive as you can without turning into Pollyanna or being dishonest. If you can't be positive, say nothing. Be polite and courteous--remember that even if he does seem like he's grown a second head with an ugly disposition, he is still the person you vowed to love and honor for the rest of your life. We _know_ it isn't fair, considering what he's doing to you, but do it for your own integrity and self-respect.

--If you can't listen to him any more without blowing up, politely call for a break and walk away to cool down.

--Dovetailing with the previous item, learn and practice these phrases:
"I'm sorry you feel that way."
"I'm sorry to hear that."
"It sounds like you have a challenging problem there."

--Work HARD on being as fun and pleasant as possible when he is around you. Yeah, we know, this seems almost impossible at the moment...but it can be done.

--Find a therapist if possible, preferably a pro-marriage solution-based one.

--Talk to your doctor about antidepressants if you need a little extra help for a while. A lot of people do, and there is nothing wrong with that.

--Take care of your physical and mental health: exercise, eat right, learn stress-reduction practices such as yoga. Try not to go on the "MLC diet" (I lost 22 pounds in 6 weeks myself, and I started off as a size six, so I didn't exactly have it to spare!). Be very kind to yourself, as long as it doesn't turn into overindulgence.

--Get as many sessions with a DB coach as you can afford. They are worth their weight in gold for those in situations like ours. (I know this is the DB board so is moderated by those biased in their favor, but I've never heard anyone say a single bad thing about DB coaching, whether on or off the DB boards, and I can vouch for it from personal experience with DB coach Jody.)

--Strap in and prepare for a loooooooooooong and bumpy ride (it invariably takes years, as you said)...but remember that you only have to live it one day at a time, or even one hour or one minute if necessary.

I know this is a lot to take in, but it really does help. Take care of yourself.

Peace and blessings,
Dawn

[Chel]

Thank you, I appreciate the posts. I went a week with no R talk and than I just felt like I needed to tell H what he may be going through and that if it is a MLC it will be a journey he needs to walk alone. He is skeptical but did see a couple of issues I raised that he could relate. He told me he weighed himself and he is 150 lbs. about 10 less than when he graduated high school. He was wondering if he was depressed or had cancer. I said you clearly are depressed and felt thee was nothing we can do alone to work on those issues. We've hit a wall. I raised the point again of possibly talking with someone about his depression because he always wants to figure things out on his own, he does not want to involve a third party no matter how non-threatening. He said he doesn't want to drag our whole history out in the open or tell someone that I am not curious/read enough books or sexual enough. I had been employing successful DB'ing techniques but after the bomb the last thing I feel like doing is being sexy for him. The best I have been able to do is try to smile, come up with activities that he can either join in or not. Last night as we were talking he just said he was tired and if we could talk later. By the way, he never ever has initiated to talk R so I know I just needed to stop. I excused myself and cried myself to sleep on the couch.

Today I am just numb and wish H would just leave. I was quiet this morning said good morning and he just had a smirk back.

I will go back to not talking R and we'll see what happens. H was always so loving and caring and we touched/hugged often. This has basically stopped and I miss the touch so much and it is usually just an arm reach away. He indicated he doesn't feel touching would be appropriate after the bomb but still lusts after me. However, he is still compelled to leave.

My main stress point that I obviously have beat over his head is that we are not alone that we are not going through something unusual there is help, non-judgmental help, all we have to do is try. Almost a year later and all I get is his reply that he is too blame for not trying hard enough - the fact is he does not want to and I need to stop beating my head against the wall.

MLC is the only answer that makes sense to me because how else could someone say they no longer want to be married and than just stick around. So I guess I just have to understand that he is gone for now and there is no telling when he will be back if ever.

I give you all so much respect for employing those DB'ing techniques for so long and for working on yourself. You are an inspiration and I will turn a new leaf today and commence positive, health behaviors.

Michele
Me 42
H 41
M 16 yrs. Together 22 yrs.
No Kids
Bomb 5/16/09
Still at home

[job]

Michele,
Do not diagnose your h's situation for him. He most likely will not believe you when you tell him that he's in mlc. Depression is something he can relate to, but not a crisis. They need to figure these things out for themselves. Suggest gently that he see a physician. Now that you've made the suggestions, drop it for a while. He's got to make the decision to go.

I wouldn't raise any more relationship issues at this time. As you are aware, depression is one of the driving forces behind mlc, right along with unfinished childhood issues. Just leave him be to work things out for now. He needs plenty of space and time, no pressure, no expectations from you. If you wants to talk to you about how he's feeling, by all means listen and validate, but do not offer up a lot of opinions. He is looking for a friend and a sounding board...not a mother.

It's time for you to start taking care of yourself. Start putting some money aside for those days when you may need it. Also, you need to begin preparing yourself, that if this is mlc, he may very well begin to self medicate by spending tons of money and not paying the bills. Take your name off of any credit cards that you can, set up a separate checking/savings again, just in case. BTW, do not even think that your h will not do such things....they all do it to some degree, some just a little bit, others a lot. They all tend to follow the same script with comments, sentences and behavior. The acting out is something that is as individual as the person going through it.

So, step back, buckle up and prepare yourself for a very long ride. Please do not take anything he says or does personally, for it is the depression talking.