Honey, I feel ya. Check out my thread for a laugh (or cry)...I just hate to know that someone else out there feels this crappy. It is wrong I tell you...
I think the best thing I can do right now is to go almost totally dark. I'm going to stop contacting him for anything other than the kids. It's going to be hard since we see each other on my day off every week and spend a good amount of time together. I need to do this though. I need to put some distance between us for my own sanity above everything else. I think I've been too accommodating so far. I buy him lunch when he's with me since he has no job and no money. I buy him cigarettes for the same reason. I've been trying to treat him like a friend and do all of the things i would do for a friend who's down on their luck, but I don't think that this situation calls for that anymore. I think he needs to really be on his own if that's what he wants. I will still be positive and friendly when I take the kids to his house and when we're doing things as a family (which still might happen considering it's the summer and we tend to do a lot of activities that the kids may want him to be a part of). I don't know how effective it'll be for DBing, but it'll go a long way for my emotional state.
I was thinking about this last night before i fell asleep. Should I let people know about his EA with the chick from England? He's living in his fantasy world of yahoo chat rooms, texts, and phone calls . . . I don't think he's really put much thought into what it would really be like if he were to bring her over here. I know his family would not approve or accept her. His friends would be polite I'm sure, but they've already told me that they know whatever's going on has nothing to do with me so they might start saying things to him to snap him out of this la la land. I know that once I say something and he finds out he will either get angry or he might just start telling people and acting like he's proud of his decision. Either way I end up looking stupid.
I'm not sure if I've mentioned this, but his parents split up a few years ago after his father had a couple of PA one of which started in a chat room. So, he has seen this happen to his mother and was not very tolerant of it when it was going on. He actually said that his father should just be on his own and figure out his life instead of turning to other people to solve his problems. Funny how it doesn't seem to apply to him now that the shoe's on the other foot.
Anyway, what are your opinions of telling people about this EA? Is it better to act like it's not there or to expose it and shed some reality on the situation?
Welcome back! I've kinda been dark on the board lately, too. In fact, I'm just today getting caught back up on folks threads and I hope I can post some more later. I'm sorry that it doesn't seem like things have gotten better in your sitch. There are good reasons that we aren't supposed to initiate R talks, and one of them is that our WASs are so deep in la-la land that even they don't know what they want from one minute to the next. Anything they say, from I want a divorce (and I want it NOW!) to I want to come home and be together, are just what they are feeling at that exact moment. The next phone call, chat session, or text message from the OP upsets the whole state machine. Don't believe anything they say and only half of what they do, right?
It's tough because the LBS usually wants resolution (and we want it NOW!) We want them to make up their minds, snap out of it, move forward, come to their senses, etc. We usually take what they say and use it as the "gold standard". If what they say is mean, then we get crushed; if what they say is pleasant, then we are walking on cloud 9. The danger is that it is completely transitory. My wife tells me all the time that I weigh things like gold. It's supposed to be a german saying about taking things too literally, and in my case it is true. It's all jibberish, and maybe they mean it at the moment, but in an hour things will have changed in their minds. The only way to save your sanity is to detach and stay away from the R talks until they calm down and start acting consistently rational, and even then they should be the initiators.
As far as exposure goes, I don't think that there is a universal answer. In general, I favor exposure of the cheating spouse, but only to cheater. Since affairs thrive in secrecy, once the LBS knows about it and outs the cheater ("I know what you are doing!") they usually dissipate quickly. As far as exposing it to his parents, friends, etc. I think you already know what you should (or in this case, shouldn't) do. For all the reasons you mentioned, I think you need to keep those cards close to your chest. In fact, don't even hint that he is having an EA to other people. You have the high moral ground in this sitch: by spreading the story around you will erode that position, and possibly entrench him in what he is doing. It sounds like his friends already know something is up and they sympathize with you, so you have nothing to gain by filling in the details for them.
In the software industry when we are trying to find and fix bugs in software, we avoid making more than a single change to the code at a time when there is a bug in the system. The reason is that if we make more than one change to code between tests, if the test passes, we don't know which change actually fixed the problem. If the only thing you care about is the fix, maybe that is ok, but if you really want to understand what was wrong and how to prevent it from happening in the future, you need to know what change produced the result you were after.
Applying this metaphor to DBing, 180s are the changes to the 'code'. If you do more than one 180 without pausing to check for effectiveness, you won't know which 180 had the effect that you wanted. I view going dark and filing for a D as two separate 180s. I would try going dark first. Yes, it is tough, but he has to have a taste of what life is going to be like without you. Up until now, he has been allowed to have his cake and eat it too. He can go to his yahoo chat rooms and be fill his emotional tank, and then he gets to go to lunch with you, or see you and fills his financial and physical tank. End that discretionary contact and let him go unfulfilled for a while. Yes, that means that you aren't going to be fulfilled emotionally. No more long hugs, pleasant lunches, or whatnot. It requires nerves of steel, but I think you are up to the task!
Save filing for the D as your truly last resort. Ask yourself, do you truly want a D, or would you be filing with the hope that it would be the act that would "snap him out of it"? If you are going to start down that road, you should be committed to following through, otherwise there will be no shock value from any divorce threat or preparation whatsoever. That card only has real value once! I would save it for when you are truly at the end of your rope.
I'm sorry that you are still in the crap-basket. It really doesn't feel fair that our WASs seem that have the world as their oyster, and we have to just exist from day-to-day waiting and hoping. Something I have discovered from my own sitch is that that perception can be just as flawed. I know now that my Ws life is no picnic, either. Their life is just as screwed up and they are hurting just as much as we are. Sometimes they are too proud to admit they made a mistake. Sometimes the a mad at themselves for how far they let things go and wonder how we could ever love them again.
But we do love them. We hope, we dream, and we plan for a better future with them. We fight tooth and nail for our Ms, for our families, for our SPs. It is a lonely fight at times, and for whatever our reasons are, we hang in there. That is why we are here; that is why we share with strangers on these boards the most intimate and personal aspects of our lives and our marriages: the hope that we can have it all back again. Not just how it was, but better than it was.
Be strong and remember why you are here, DL. You can do it!
Me40 WAW37 M18 T20 S18,14 D13 EA Bomb 6/08 Sep 11/20/08 Ret 08/09 Sep/Filed 11/09
Welcome back! I've kinda been dark on the board lately, too. In fact, I'm just today getting caught back up on folks threads and I hope I can post some more later. I'm sorry that it doesn't seem like things have gotten better in your sitch. There are good reasons that we aren't supposed to initiate R talks, and one of them is that our WASs are so deep in la-la land that even they don't know what they want from one minute to the next. Anything they say, from I want a divorce (and I want it NOW!) to I want to come home and be together, are just what they are feeling at that exact moment. The next phone call, chat session, or text message from the OP upsets the whole state machine. Don't believe anything they say and only half of what they do, right?
It's tough because the LBS usually wants resolution (and we want it NOW!) We want them to make up their minds, snap out of it, move forward, come to their senses, etc. We usually take what they say and use it as the "gold standard". If what they say is mean, then we get crushed; if what they say is pleasant, then we are walking on cloud 9. The danger is that it is completely transitory. My wife tells me all the time that I weigh things like gold. It's supposed to be a german saying about taking things too literally, and in my case it is true. It's all jibberish, and maybe they mean it at the moment, but in an hour things will have changed in their minds. The only way to save your sanity is to detach and stay away from the R talks until they calm down and start acting consistently rational, and even then they should be the initiators.
As far as exposure goes, I don't think that there is a universal answer. In general, I favor exposure of the cheating spouse, but only to cheater. Since affairs thrive in secrecy, once the LBS knows about it and outs the cheater ("I know what you are doing!") they usually dissipate quickly. As far as exposing it to his parents, friends, etc. I think you already know what you should (or in this case, shouldn't) do. For all the reasons you mentioned, I think you need to keep those cards close to your chest. In fact, don't even hint that he is having an EA to other people. You have the high moral ground in this sitch: by spreading the story around you will erode that position, and possibly entrench him in what he is doing. It sounds like his friends already know something is up and they sympathize with you, so you have nothing to gain by filling in the details for them.
In the software industry when we are trying to find and fix bugs in software, we avoid making more than a single change to the code at a time when there is a bug in the system. The reason is that if we make more than one change to code between tests, if the test passes, we don't know which change actually fixed the problem. If the only thing you care about is the fix, maybe that is ok, but if you really want to understand what was wrong and how to prevent it from happening in the future, you need to know what change produced the result you were after.
Applying this metaphor to DBing, 180s are the changes to the 'code'. If you do more than one 180 without pausing to check for effectiveness, you won't know which 180 had the effect that you wanted. I view going dark and filing for a D as two separate 180s. I would try going dark first. Yes, it is tough, but he has to have a taste of what life is going to be like without you. Up until now, he has been allowed to have his cake and eat it too. He can go to his yahoo chat rooms and be fill his emotional tank, and then he gets to go to lunch with you, or see you and fills his financial and physical tank. End that discretionary contact and let him go unfulfilled for a while. Yes, that means that you aren't going to be fulfilled emotionally. No more long hugs, pleasant lunches, or whatnot. It requires nerves of steel, but I think you are up to the task!
Save filing for the D as your truly last resort. Ask yourself, do you truly want a D, or would you be filing with the hope that it would be the act that would "snap him out of it"? If you are going to start down that road, you should be committed to following through, otherwise there will be no shock value from any divorce threat or preparation whatsoever. That card only has real value once! I would save it for when you are truly at the end of your rope.
I'm sorry that you are still in the crap-basket. It really doesn't feel fair that our WASs seem that have the world as their oyster, and we have to just exist from day-to-day waiting and hoping. Something I have discovered from my own sitch is that that perception can be just as flawed. I know now that my Ws life is no picnic, either. Their life is just as screwed up and they are hurting just as much as we are. Sometimes they are too proud to admit they made a mistake. Sometimes the a mad at themselves for how far they let things go and wonder how we could ever love them again.
But we do love them. We hope, we dream, and we plan for a better future with them. We fight tooth and nail for our Ms, for our families, for our SPs. It is a lonely fight at times, and for whatever our reasons are, we hang in there. That is why we are here; that is why we share with strangers on these boards the most intimate and personal aspects of our lives and our marriages: the hope that we can have it all back again. Not just how it was, but better than it was.
Be strong and remember why you are here, DL. You can do it!
Hey PortlandDad.
Kudos, on an excellent post! Full of good information...thanks!
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
Thank you so much PD! I love your metaphor for the 180s. It's so true too. I've noticed the 180s I've been doing have made a difference so I'll continue to do them when he's around. I agree that going dark is the best choice I have at the moment. He really doesn't have a concept of what it would be like to be truly without me since I've been letting him have it both ways. I have to stop taking care of him and letting him think that when he feels like it I'll be there. It's scary to think that by doing this he might think that I've finally moved on and take it as a sign that he's making the right decision. That's my biggest fear right now actually; that he'll move on faster because I'm not around. I guess it's a chance I'm going to have to take if anything is going to change. Either way I'll have a definitive answer of what's going to happen.
Thanks again PD for the amazing advice! You always say what I need to keep me going.
I don't what to do anymore. It's been almost impossible for me to go dark with the kids home for the summer. He's had to watch them at my house and I've taken then to his house. When he's been at my house he can't wait for me to take him home and practically runs up the driveway when he gets out of the car. When I take them to his house he ignores me and acts like I'm not there while I drop them off and pick them up.
I'm going on vacation this Friday. He's going to stay at my house with the kids. I'm going to Florida to visit some friends and a mutual guy friend of ours. I've been planning this for a couple of months. I talked to my sister in law on Monday and she was telling me that it looked really bad that I was going because it looked like I was just going to sleep with my husband's best friend. I was pretty shocked at this, maybe naively so. I told her that I wanted my marriage to work and was willing to do anything to make that happen, but that he wasn't. My sister feels the same way about it looking bad because I'm still married.
I decided to talk to my husband and proceeded to break every rule in the book. I told him that I hadn't bought my ticket and asked if he wanted to go away with me this weekend. I basically poured my heart out to him and told him that I still loved him and that I didn't care what had happened between us because I wanted to be married to him. He cried the entire time I talked. I told him that I wasn't going to FL to be with anyone, I was going to have fun with friends I hadn't seen in a while and to sort things out. He said he understood.
His friends have been telling me that he paints me to be a controlling bitch that never let him do anything. They tell me that he gloats that I'm still around and that he says I make him sick to his stomach when he's near me.
I really don't know what to do. I know that I've broken the rules in a major way. I felt that I had to let him know where I stood and it all just kind of tumbled out. Here's the kicker: he told me that his cyber chick is planning on moving out here. He said there wasn't a date set, but that it was going to happen. What do I do?
What do I do?