Honestly? Probably to lovingly call her on her bullchit when she presents it, but to give grace and overpraise small progress.
Can you call her on it it a better more loving way?
Can you give the grace regardless of progress?
WOA (praise) is that one of Mrs Puppy's LLs? If not find a more loving way.
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
(Puppy), Just wanted to let you know that I called the counselor today,but got her voicemail. I left a message for someone to call me back. What do you think is the price we want to pay (or can pay) per session?
I also wanted to say something about the fact that I didn't wear my ring the other day. Apparently that bothers you. I personally don't understand why it would, as the ring doesn't make me "married". I just wanted to clear the air, because now I feel like you are constantly looking to see if I am wearing it. We talked the other day about no expectations from each other at least for awhile. I do not like wearing rings to work, and I thought I explained the reason for that. Why is it so important to you that I wear it ALL the time. There are lots of couples who sometimes do not wear their rings, and there is no problem with it. I just don't like wearing anything other than a watch, which I need for my job and a pair of earrings. I'm not attacking your reasons for wanting me to wear it, I'm just trying to make you understand why I don't when I work.
(Mrs. Puppy)
I replied:
(Wife),
Whatever it costs, it costs. To me, it is "a pebble in the jar" of your life, and it should be a priority. Like you said a couple of weeks ago, why is it that we can find $600 to help us try and get DIVORCED (mediator), but we can't seem to find the money to help us stay MARRIED? (counseling). If you feel this will help you, then I'm committed to it.
Yes, it bothers me when you don't wear your ring, and since we're supposed to be trying to communicate more and not just stuff our resentments, like we both have in the past, I decided to ask you about it. We had talked about it just a couple of weeks ago, when we decided to call off Mediator Meeting #2, that we would put our rings back on. I know you don't like to wear them to work, or to work out, which is why I hadn't said anything all week on the days you were working, and waited until a day when you weren't to ask you about it. I hadn't seen you wear them all week. I know the ring doesn't make us married, but I view our rings as a sign of our love and commitment to each other, and it hurts me when you choose not to project that to the outside world. And yes, I'm sure I'm a little sensitive to that recently, but we always wore our rings all those years we've been married and it's only been the last couple of years when yours seemed to bother you. As i wrote you back a week ago, I get fearful too, and I took it as another sign that you were pulling away from me.
I really don't want you to feel like you HAVE to wear a wedding ring out of some sense of duty or obligation to me. I would hope that you would WANT to wear it.
I hope that helps explain my feelings.
Love,
(Puppy)
. . . and she replied:
(Puppy), Thanks for explaining your feelings to me.
I am looking forward to seeing the counselor. I haven't had anyone to talk to that wasn't biased in some way, and that has been very difficult on me. I never want to involve my daughters, so I don't talk to them, and my parents just don't have a clue. So, hopefully this woman will help me to sort my feelings and perhaps face my fears.
As long as we are really being honest with each other, I have to confess that sometimes I do think we were premature in putting our rings back on and pretending like everything is perfect when in fact it is not. Sometimes I feel bad because I feel like once again we gave the signal to the kids that everything is fine with us. Maybe subconciously that is why I don't remember to put my rings on. I just feel like, yes, we are married and I haven't forgotten that, but I don't want to send mixed signals to the family into thinking "oh how nice they have their rings on again, everything must be peachy now between them". I know we love each other and we are and hopefully will always be best friends, but I do think that when we went to (restaurant) a few weeks ago, we got caught up in a lot of emotion. There is obviously a lot of feelings between us, whether or not they are enough to sustain us, I guess will remain to be seen.
Love, Me
(NOTE: The night at the restaurant, that is the night we came home and ML, and had a real nice next couple of days, talking and hugging and kissing and agreeing to put our rings back on and take this thing one day at a time, etc.)
I replied:
So what I hear you saying is, you view the wearing of our rings as a sign to our kids (and probably to your parents too?) that "don't worry; everything's okay now"?
I can understand your hesitation in that case.
To me, I feel that I just got a long, heartfelt letter from my wife basically telling me that she doesn't know if she won't ALWAYS have restless "wanderlust" feelings, and then you take your rings off right after we committed to each other that we would put them back on.
(Wife), I have tried to convey "no expectations" to you as it relates to ME. No questioning of a lack of wanting to sit on my lap, or to hold my hand, or to initiate any affection. The rings, to me, are more of a communication to the OUTSIDE WORLD, which -- I guess you're saying -- is entirely YOUR point, too (that you don't want to get people's hopes up).
That Friday night after (co-worker)'s house and (restaurant), yeah, I guess I could write that off to "caught up in the moment." But I thought that what happened the NEXT couple of days was some kind of a decision, to at least TRY, and I guess you're saying that for you it was purely emotional. I appreciate you being honest about it.
(Puppy)
I really am trying, guys. Please try and understand that what I've gone thru is basically a 20-year sex-starved marriage, which finally culminated in my wife having an affair two years ago. 90% of men would have bailed, but I'm trying to do this. There is a LOT of history of her drawing me back in, when she's scared, only to push me away again, and I'm terrified (and angry) to see it happening again.
And yet I also see how it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy, too.
I understand your points and your W doesn't know how to validate your feelings yet. But do you see how you wanting the rings on makes you look needy to your W? Give her the space to come to you. (I have been so guilty of this as well.) Right now you need to be able to fill your own love buckets. The Guccieasque style was working because you seem confident, strong and in charge. Show her that is really who you are. She is going to IC for her and your's sake, give her some credit. That is a loving gesture on her part. I understand your desire for her to do things for you because she wants to. That's the essence of validation - I see who you are and want to do something for you because you matter to me. Show her what it means to validate, forgive, trust and truly love. You have to love yourself enougth to let you risk your feelings first. Love your neighbor as yourself. You can handle it. Cheers
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
Right now you need to be able to fill your own love buckets.
And therein lies the rub. (ok, never say "rub" to a guy in a SSM, but you know what I mean ... ). I've been doing without my wife filling my love buckets for the better part of 20 years, and now -- while I can see that INTELLECTUALLY what you say is true -- I'm stuck in a hopeless Catch-22. Because if I assert myself, I come across as "needy" and "pursuing" and like the wounded victim. And if I DON'T, then she complains that the "distance" isn't just her, but it's me, too, and she points out how I've pulled away.
And she is NOT one that pursues when I pull back -- that "he/she who cares the least" thing NEVER worked with her.
She just called me at work (which she rarely does), and had that "nice, soft" voice. I do think she's trying, however inelegantly.
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
So you make your living with your choice of words. Instead of saying you are "fearful" when she doesn't wear her rings try something like," I love it when you wear your rings because it let's the world know that my beautiful W is spoken for by a man who loves her dearly." Make it about her, why you love it when she wears the rings you bought as a symbol of your love and commitment. When she brings up not wanting to lead people on about wearing the rings say, "I understand that but I am not worried about what other people think. I wear my ring as a sign of respect and honor for you that is what I believe. I will support you doing what ever you want." Put this in your words. Be bigger than ring issue. It's not the real issue anyway. Let her close some of the sales. You sound like me so I can relate. Cheers
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
You come to me in times of need When you can’t find anyone You seem to be much better off now There’s a rainbow number one We could see life through the gutter then Till it caused my heart to break There was too much toil in dreamland And too much love to take
Sometimes I remember when We were all dressed up in style I don’t recall the gist of it all But you drove the young men wild You could wrap me around your finger Till it caused my heart to break There was too much toil in dreamland And too much love to take So if you need me near you Y’ can do it if you choose There was too much toil in dreamland And too much love to lose
Instrumental
You make me do what you want me to do Then you run the rules on me You seem to be the wiser now Could it be you’ve been deceived Anytime you felt like tryin’ You would cause my heart to break There was too much toil in dreamland And too much love to take
So if you need me near you now You can do it if you choose There was too much toil in dreamland And too much love to lose
Don't know if you rememeber me, but you gave me some good advice a bit back. My situation is still not great, but it is a bit better.
It seems to me that her wearing her ring means something different to her that it does to you. She seems to be saying that the ring means that everyting is great and she just isn't ready to let the world know that you to are on the mend.
To me, my ring means that I am married. It says nothing about the state of my marriage. I will wear it until I am no longer married.
I don't particulary like wearing a wedding ring. It bothers my hand. I scrape it when I lift weights. It is downright dangerous when I am woodworking. But I wear it anyway. Sometimes when I'm really pissed off at my wife I do take it off, but then I feel strangely naked. Plus it seems that women look at me differently (probably imagined!) when I don't wear it and that is one complication that I don't need at the moment.
My wife does wears hers most of the time (except when she exercises), probably because I spent a small fortune on it and it is big and sparkly.
I'm a man . . . But I can change . . . If I have to . . . I guess . . .
). I've been doing without my wife filling my love buckets for the better part of 20 years, and now -- while I can see that INTELLECTUALLY what you say is true -- I'm stuck in a hopeless Catch-22. Because if I assert myself, I come across as "needy" and "pursuing" and like the wounded victim. And if I DON'T, then she complains that the "distance" isn't just her, but it's me, too, and she points out how I've pulled away.