WAW - Very confused and devastated - pt 9

[sandi2]

Sandi - I've read you post many times (as others have suggested). I'm still digesting and trying to figure it all out. The general gist of it seems to be stop talking so much; listen; listen; and listen. When I do have to answer, keep it short and to the point, but with some interest/emotion (not cold). Did I get that about right?

One of the places that "show" the co-dependency is through all the talking and lingering on the phone and the back & forth stuff with each other. It's as if watching a game of passing the ball back and forth and not getting to the goal. She is unsure and acts as if she wants you to continue to talk her into going and you basically keep saying the same thing over and over. What I was suggesting is that you say it one time and one time only--and if she wants to play the cat & mouse game.....let her play alone. Just tell her that the invitation stands and that you need to go and she can decide what she wants to do. Leave it at that and don't just keep on & on with the game. You see, it wasn't the "words" that you said that was all wrong.....it was b/c you just kept it going.

Let me ask another question, please. Have you noticed that it is when you have the boys that she seems to be doing so much calling, emailing, etc.? Does she seem to always have some kind of emotional problem, get more depressed, cry or whatever when it is your turn with the kids? Or.....does she do about the same as when she has the boys with her? I just wondered if it was more when the kids were with you. If it is.......that is her controlling.

As for her problems with her father.....if he has tried to reconnect with her and make a life with the grandchildren and she doesn't want it or continues to "blame" him, she apparently doesn't have a clue about forgiveness. No wonder she is messed up if she holds grudges toward everyone that ever said a cross word to her! I understand that a lot of children blame themselves when one of their parents leave the home, (I don't know that she blames "herslef" or not) but she is grown now and it is time to make ammends.......but I think she had rather hang on to it b/c she has allowed that experience to make up "who" she is and she won't let it go! She has based her entire life on that foundation. I don't have much patient with somebody like that who is not ready to make a new start. It is a form of selfishness. Now, if he had abused her in some way, that is different, but if he walked out on his wife......then the daughter needs to give her dad another chance at a R with her. At least he is trying and she is the one that wants to hold on to the past and keep a grudge alive. Her way of punishing him, I'm sure. She had no control over that R back then, but now she is the one controlling it.

Do you know that people with her personality type is a controller? Just like her playing the cat & mouse game......she knew what she was doing! Making you crawl (or at least she thought she was) when you kept assuring her that she was invited to the carnival. I thought I saw that the first time I read it, but I told myself this was a WAW and that was not logical. When you kept telling her to do what she wanted.....she kept hem-hawing around b/c she actually wanted to here you beg. Contolling! When she said what she did about feeling fat........she wanted you to assure her she wasn't. (Now most of us females have done and said that about our hair, size, clothes, etc., b/c we do feel insecure and want to hear our H's tell us we are wrong b/c we look super-great!) Yet, it is a form of control. Her complaining about the food and everything else at the carnival was an attempt (I believe) to have your undivided attention instead of you giving it all to the boys. Controlling! She is still controlling the R with her sister b/c of something that happen years ago. She does it by acting hurt or angry and stubbornly refuses to turn it lose and burry it. If she does that, then what kind of R would her and sister have? I bet she could use the same excuse with her father and sister as she does with you. I bet she thinks that she doesn't know if she can "trust" them not to hurt her again! Well baby, that is part of being an adult! We all take chances in relationships, whether it is family, lovers, or friends.

with her father abandoning them when she was 7, she was always emotionally starved for male approval (at least that's the sense I got and the read that my therapist/marriage counselor got as well).

You know, your W has been at this for many years. I wonder if she used the same excuse while she went through school. How long did you know her....or how soon after you met her did she bring up the subject of her father leaving? I am not talking like this to make you mad at me, but rather to get you to see through different eyes. Sure she was hurt......a lot of kids get hurt, just like she is going to hurt her boys if she goes through with the D (and she can't even see it). She doesn't seem to realize that she will cause them to have scars b/c all she is thinking about is herself!

Maybe it is true that she needs male attention b/c of the way her father did her. I am not saying that she wasn't deeply affected or that she doesn't feel that emptiness in her soul b/c of what happened. However, I have seen kids who would lose a parent in death and it would hurt them so badly, and yet those kids would turn around and "use" that as a gimmick to get attention or to controll the stitch and get what they wanted. So, one has to ask themselves if she is doing this. Maybe she doesn't have a clue that she is, but I bet a psy. doctor could have a field day!

I certainly can understand about the full figure and emotional eating. When I was in high school, I developed early and it got the boys attention, for sure. I had a good figure, but was self-concious with people looking at me. If I knew then....what I know now.....how differently I would handle things (lol). But seriously, the food is her crutch and the fact that she gained while you lost--just goes to show how people react differently to their problems and stress.

She says that happily married couples should be able to just look at each other accross the room and see the person's emotion/feelings in the other person's eyes. I almost couldn't contain my laughter/disbelief when she said it.

Hummmm, wonder why I had a "feeling" about that? If it wasn't so pathetic, it would be laughable. I even had my H and my grown D ask me if I thought real life was like the romance novels! No, I KNEW it wasn't.......I just WANTED IT TO BE! I wanted to find the guy in those books. Do you know that I was listening to a female author of romance novels talk about writing one of those books when she realized that she didn't have a clue as to how men "thought"? She would write how we women "wanted" men to think!! Now what does that tell you? It tells me a lots of generations of women have been misled by what silly books have told them. The women are silly for believing it, but it happens all the time. They think that men are born knowing how women think and what their emotional needs are without ever having to ask. They can just "look into their eyes and know". PLEASE!

My therapist has even said that she seems to be holding onto the hurt for some reason that my therapist can figure out. She had made a one on one appointment with my therpist/marriage counselor but cancelled at the last minute. Oddly, that was also the first nite my wife and I hooked up again since the bomb.

I don't think your W wants the therapist to go too deep and figure her out! I believe she was afraid to go by herself b/c the therapist could have seen the underlying problem and your W did not want to face it and went where she knew she would be treated with love and assurance......which was you! She was once again controlling the stitch. Have you thought about it like that? Facing the therapist alone is much like facing a parent for her. She might actually have to give an accountability! She doesn't want to accept responsibility for whatever has gone wrong. She may have thought that her father left b/c of her mother and "her", but I think she blamed her father for the pain he caused her. She blames her sister. She blames you. She is controlling and prolonging the stitch as it stands now by always going over this same junk about how she doesn't know if she can trust you with her heart again. PLEASE! That almost sounds like something our of one of those novels!

a 1/2 anniversary card

Isn't that a bit immature?

But I stayed consistent right up to the point she moved out. Even the day she moved out, she came and gave me a hug and wouldn't let go even though I tried to break off the hug a couple of tim

So, see? This sentence alone......changes my mind about her from that post regarding the carnival night. She wanted you to cry and beg her not to go.......and "if" you did, she didn't think you have suffered enough for ignoring her the way you have.

I told her that I will leave it up to her to initiate.

If there is no OM, and she is confused about reality with fantasy, then for her to initiate things is not her fantasy! In the romance novels, the hero "always" pursues the female.

So, in short, do I think that the Divorce is just a play? I don't know - especially since we've already payed almost $8K in legal fees just to get us to this point. If it's just a play, I will be mad! I had asked her to even stop/pause the proceedings as she's figuring things out. She had said that she would think about it, but yet on Friday I got a notice to appear for child support hearing. I asked her about it and she said she had no idea as she didn't do anything to file for it.

Money does not mean that much b/c she has not been in "need" of it like some others may have. Her need is "attention". Her need is control. I'm sure when her father walked out, she saw her mother showing fear and felt like things were very unsure. That is scary for a little girl. Maybe (playing therapist, here) she vowed that she would always have control of the things around here. However, I doubt that she is consciously "aware" that she is doing that. (She could be, but I not knowing her....I couldn't say.) To me, it just makes sense that this is what she is doing b/c it does not line up with the typical WAW. Now, when I first read about the carnival night....yes, I thought she was but even then, as you remember, I saw something that wasn't along the same route as a usual WAW.

She had complained during counseling how when she would wear certain outfits out or when she would get her hair done/colored that I wouldn't notice. She said it made her feel like I didn't care or pay any attention to her.

Listen, I dc not mean to sound harsh and cruel toward her, but this sounds so petty to me. Apparently she has not had to face real tragidy in her life before or she would see how silly this is if that is all she can find wrong in her marriage!!! I can see a 20 year-old that has been M maybe a year, but not after all this time and at her age. She sounds very, very spoiled to me. Unless there is something very serious that happened that I am not aware of.......she had it made and didn't have the good sence to realize it. Petty!! All of it is pettiness! I could turn her over my lap and spank her bottom! These are things couples can talk out and you don't D somebody b/c they didn't pay attention to your nails being freshly done! So, she may have tried to tell you and you didn't listen.......don't you think this is rather drastic to get you to notice a hair-do? Is this all she told the therapist?? You said:

I know I've hurt her feelings by neglecting her

How exactly have you rejected her? Does she call you not noticing a new outfit, rejection?

Yet, during marriage counseling, my therapist/our counselor asked her point blank if she still loved me. She didn't give a yes or no answer. She rambled on for a bit and even my therapist didn't understand her answer.

Again, this is control. If she has said that she still loved you, then the therapist would have tried to go from that point in working it out. If she said she didn't love you then she would be pushed into following through with the D. This way, nothing moves until she decides it will. Contol!

When I do have to answer, keep it short and to the point, but with some interest/emotion (not cold). Did I get that about right?

Yes, you got the message. But you know, (amd maybe I'm jumping the gun here) but I am wondering if you've tried all these things and all the 180's have not worked........then I have to go back to my original post I sent you before I even read about this part of her. You remember me stating to drop the rope? I don't know if you have the courage or not......only you can decide, but I think you need to call her bluff! Force her out of that control mode. Until you force her out......she is going to make life on earth pure hell for you! She will wear you down with these emotional dramas of hers until you will have no strength or hope left. Don't allow her to do that. I think you are too close to the problem to see it, but that is what I'm seeing after reading more information. I still stand on what I told you about no touching and the phone calls, etc. But I have certainly changed my mind about her. She is not the typical WAW b/c she does not want to turn loose of her control over you. She wants you to chase and pursue her like in the romance books. However, she needs to learn seveal lessons in life. Beginning with her father and sister and then going to you and that R in the M. I promise you this......if you do not call her bluff and you play along with her game and do what she "wants" and not what she "needs"........she will repeat this over and over everytime things do not go exactly as she wants. Everytime you turn your foot the wrong way, she will think, "this is not how is is suppose to be" and out the door she will go to "control" you and the stitch.

Talk to you later,
Sandi