Not so new but still seeking advice

[25yearsmlc]

Don't have time to do the whole thread review now and maybe won't for awhile. But THIS post of yours was a little revealing. She brings up stuff and you handled it pretty well. Normally I'd say veer off R talk and NEVER be the one to bring it up UNTIL IF AND WHEN YOU are truly ready to get a decision. Knowing you might need to back it up with action, etc. But you aren't there yet and you kind of called her "bluff" or her trial balloon or whatever.

Back off and let her see some "reality" and don't be the one to show it to her. Life will. She's probably rethinking. Who knows? I'm not in a position to know since I don't know your sitch but I do know that sometimes the guys here, often the UNsucessful ones, end up projecting their wishes or agendas onto other men and they don't help. Not saying you did that, or anyone is to you. But I am saying to watch for it. But I've seen a guy on this site tell other men to "man up" and stand up for themselves and "see the change and the respect and blah blah blah" and that guy is a total hypocrite. I don't know if he's helped anyone and for sure he's not taking his own advice. He's aggressive to the point of being violent, or he does the opposite and wallows in weakling behavior. Very odd but you'd never know from his posts. (I have not seen his posts on your thread, but haven't looked hard either. So I'm not pointing any specific fingers, okay?) Just making an observation that may be needed. Similar stories from jilted LBSers who think ALL WAS's are "Cheaters" and "once a cheater, always a cheater" and since I know some "cheaters" who NEVER did it again, I don't like blanket rules being projected onto other people....

I digress.

Your interaction was a good one. Let her own her choices. I assume your legal and financial analysis was based on solid advice from a professional, correct? Oh, and be careful not to be the "parent" to her. She'll feel cornered or forced into defending her choices rather than examining them. I also just read a book called "Blue Like Jazz" and it's a spiritual book. Struck me in many ways.

A point I got from it is this. (My words and my take on it of course...) We sometimes want the WAS to "go to Church" or find God, or "remember their values/morals" and what we are really doing is manipulating religion for our own goals. That's misusing religion. Instead, if you are a man of faith, let your faith strengthen and enrich your life. Let it show in a positive way that shows to others without aiming it at W...it's about YOUR R with God. Let the LOVE of God show and the forgiveness. It's key to reconciling.
And as my signature says, "Forgiveness is the way out of hell".

Sometimes I wonder if any WAS ever came home, and stayed, out of guilt. I doubt it. And isn't it more likely to happen if the WAS feels they'll be forgiven or welcomed, rather than risking that the A or "sin" they committed will be held over their heads the rest of their lives? Kind of like how my db coach said to "Keep the Road Home Paved and Smooth", so don't make it any harder to return than it already would be. If your w thought you were controlling (yes I know that men say "they all say that" but that does not mean it isn't true) then now is NOT the time for you to issue your "rules". I find it amazing that a man (or any LBSer) would tell a WAW what SHE has to do to work on the M for HIM to take her back --when she is walking away!! Amazing...and stupid, and prideful and arrogant and sooooo NOT effective!! It's exactly what she'd need to validate her choice to leave!!



Finally, reconciling presents a risk for both parties. Sometimes the LBSers forget that. They think that if there is an A, first off they get to be victims and pretend they played NO role in the demise of their M. AND they forget that even though they are risking their hearts again, b/c maybe the WAS will cheat again, the WAS returning is risking a lot too. Maybe the A IS a real love they are rejecting in favor or a M with someone who does not truly love them well. OR maybe they'll be punished the rest of their lives. Or maybe the LBSer will go back to the ways of before that made the WAS feel "entitled" to cheat or pushed into the arms of OP...

Both sides have to let go of the past to move forward successfully...just some thoughts. But to get to that point, the WAS has to believe SOMETHING would be different, something key would be better. RIght or wrong (and do you want to be "right" or happy? b/c that's a big question to seriously consider), but right or wrong, the WAS feels justified in leaving and won't return for more of the same. So the LBSer has to prove that THEY are different now and that M to THEM would be better and IF the WAS wants back in, SOMEDAY, and only then can an LBSer start talking about "conditions"....I was sooo turned off what Mrniceguy said to his wife I could not believe the "manly" response he got from others. Neither could she, sadly. Um, guess what I'm saying is until I know more of your sitch I cannot be specific. I saw you among others, posting to MNG and shook my head. So, that's why I posted to you. I mean, if what you are doing is working, great. But make darn sure you define "Working" carefully. I have seen men here post on and on about morals and rules and what THEIR expectations are of their WAWs, and their wives have left them!! Hello?? Why don't they Look in the mirror, I say to myself.

Have you ever read the CS Lewis book "The Great Divorce"? (It is not about divorce but R's with God and behavior, etc.) It's written like a novel and has different characters arguing their way into heaven, etc. Interesting. One man keeps on and on about how "right" he was with his wife and how unfair it was that she got into heaven when HE was "such a righteous man" and she was so overly friendly with "just anyone" (meaning she was kind and nonjudgemental, etc) and there are times I feel I hear that man on this site....hey, I would tell you if you sounded like him and maybe you do on your thread, but I'm not saying that now. Just making some general observations. Food for thought.
Anyhow, as i said, I DIGRESS and must now stop and go...
Have a great weekend. Seriously, your weekend is probably going to be an interesting one. Listen to her if she brings up R talk and the way you handled the phone requests for switching nights was WELL DONE....polite, NO ANGER but requiring an "adult" request of some specificity from her. Good job.

J-