WAW - Very confused and devastated - pt 9

[confusedinpa]

You're doing fine. Just stop being in such a rush to contact her. You mention that you've started trying to GAL with your hobbies and whatnot, but most of the time you're out with your W or talking about her.

It's only been a month since she left and believe me, I know how it feels. Remember what I said about patience? You mentioned on my thread about posing the question to my W if she wants to work on things or not. Well, right now she's not at that place and is definitely not as open as your W. So I await for the right time to come up.

If you keep obsessing about what your W thinks or when it would be a good time to do something, you're going to keep tying yourself in knots.

Take it one day at a time like you have been doing and enjoy the time alone. See it as a time for self growth.

Stuck808,

Thanks for the 2x4. I've noticed this week that I've been much more jumpy at contacting her. I think her call last Friday and this past Tues gave me more/false hope where in reality it might have been cake eating by her part. I've really got a grip on myself and get back to Dark/Dim when we're apart and the BEST CIPA when we are together.

We do seem to spend a lot of time during the first 4 weeks of the separation. It seems like we do some family thing about 2 times/week and she calls me to talk several nites/week (mostly non-relationship stuff). I'm not complaining about it as I'm sure I would be hurting more if we weren't doing those things.

I have been taking the time alone to get a life. On Sundays, after she picks up the boys, I go to church, then to the gym. Then I do the yard work around the house and would call a friend to go grab some beer and wings every other Sunday afternoon/nite. On Monday's I would clean the house and get the laundry done after work so that everything was ready for when the boys came back. On Tuesday nite, I go to the gym and relax. On Weds, I have my individual therapy and my 3 year old's baseball. Thurs, Fri & Sat I have the boys so those nites, it's daddy and boys bonding time. That's how I've been spending my weeks. My 7 year old's soccer starts up on Tues & Thurs in about 4 weeks so that is going to make it even more busy.

I know if I posed the question to my wife now, her answer would be different. Back when I did, she had said it was to have/experience positive moments together. I think right now it would be that she doesn't want to work on it as she hadn't changed her mind.

Thanks again for the 2x4. I gotta get my head back in the game. For my boys. And for ME.

[confusedinpa]

It takes 'em a month or more just to get the logistics of moving taken care of...like utilities, furniture, etc...and getting used to living on their own. I think these things take much, much more time than we would like. It's not really realistic to expect things to start turning around so soon. Mine's been out of the house for 3 months now, and the amount of anger that she still has is something to behold. She put up with me for years, and it's unrealistic for me to expect anything positive to happen for a long, long time...if it ever does.

Antlers,

I do agree with you. My WAW friend that I've been talking to about my situation said that I should wait 4-6 months before even talking about trying to reconnect. She said that both times she left, she spent that long just getting everything set up and having the initial "freedom thrill" wear off. She did say after the first 4 weeks, she did get all emotional from the initial shock after the first month or so for a couple days (the first month was the busiest getting setup).

I don't think that my wife will admit that she was angry, but keeps saying that she feels hurt, cheated, etc, that our marriage was such a neglectful one.

I know it's not realistic to expect anything hugely positive this early, but I was just looking for some small sign/clue. I know I just need to prepare myself and my life and my boys that she's not coming back. That way if she does, it could be gravy. I just hope I'm not eating lasagna at that time..... if it ever happens...

[sandi2]

Hi confusedinpa,

You asked me to stop by and take a look at your thread. I tried to find the first post and got as far back as sometime in 2008, but never found where you actually came on the board. So, could you give me a very brief upgrade as to what your story is about? I gather that you are S and she had filed for a D. She apparently has not been out of the house long, but you don't want to wait for years only to find out it won't change facts.

I was an AWAW and it was years in the making and it has taken a long time for me to begin to feel normal again. I have discovered that I have very low hormone levels and hopefully the doctor will be able to help in that area, but it has certainly had a big part in my feelings and behavior (I believe) and that is not to say that I am using that as an "excuse".....not at all, but just throwing that in for the heck of it.....

What are the ages of you and your W? That helps to know. I have seen your name on the forum before but just never got over to visit you. You have been around for a while! I know it must be awfully frustrating for you b/c I have learned this by reading other LBH's posts and it has helped me to realize just how badly I hurt my own H and to understand his pain (since he doesn't discuss it with me).

You probably feel some panic just knowing the D is coming, but that will show in your talk, actions, attitude....everything. It would be hard to control, but you must work hard not to "feel" the panic and allow it to take over your life b/c she will back farther away. It is something that comes across as "desparate" that just turns the opposite sex off! I know that is certainly not what you want to happen.

I will tell you that when I was considering leaving my H and home, that I wanted so badly to feel "freedom". I think it would have taken me many months to come to the place that the freshness of that new "single freedom" wore off. I could be wrong and guess I'll never know (and don't want to know, now). I suppose it is anybody's guess as to how long it would have taken for my fantasy trip to end and the reality of my situation to hit me. I can tell you that it was only when my H completely and totally back away from me and left me alone and showed no effort at pursuing that I decided that I would even "try" to stay home. A time or two, he almost messed up by making the mistake of just touching me (not sexually) in a light affectionate way......and I could not even stand that much!

I will not go into a lot of details right now and will wait until you respond with more information for me, but I can't expound enough on how important it is to completely "drop the rope" and let her go. Women have tried to tell men this over and over, but they won't listen until too much damage has been done or it is too late. I have read where that is the only thing that stopped a D was when the other S finally dropped the rope and the WAS realized that the D was going to happen and then it hit them that it was not what they wanted at all. If you have been there at her beck & call, and she has not had to miss you or do without you........that is not good. She needs to realize that she has "lost" you. If being friends has not worked, or anything else you've tried (and I gather it hasn't) then I strongly suggest that you drop the rope ASAP as your LRT. What do you have to lose? You might just gain a lot in return.

I'll check back and talk to you later.

Sandi2

[MrBond]

If you want to do something constructive about your W, then why don't you write down some goals the DR way? For example, write down, she will initiate hugs with me when we are with the kids. Stuff like that. Even now I am re-reading DR and DB to narrow down my goals.

Those were the types of goals I wrote for myself. I think the first was "she will not get angry at me when we talk". And then I took steps to be sure she wasn't angry. Stuff like that.

I think alot of people here forget that DR and DB isn't a passive thing and that the goals you set do involve your spouse. That's why many people are in "limbo" because they are so busy working on themselves that they forget to write goals that involve their spouses.

[confusedinpa]

FWIW, it's been 2 yrs. since my D and restraing order placed on me. She was very mad and telling embellished stories. I was angry but stayed away even though she stole from me. Never in a million thought we'd ever talk again. Lo and behold we reconnected a couple weeks back and are friends again.

Time will heal even if scars are left. As weird as it seems I might even consider... But I'm trying to bust my current R and she's in one also. Funny how we both respect that now. We picked up where we left off when things were good. Outside of the intimacy, of course. There has been friendly flirting though.

What I'm saying is standing down is very important. You especially don't want to be forced too. Amazing what time will do to the heart, I finally got an apology and she admitted to being a bad wife.

Your W is asking for something even if she's not sure what that is. Let her figure it out.

cire

Wow - that's pretty incredible. I hope it works out for you.

I have asked my wife what she wanted and she said that she really has no idea. I puked all over her at that point of saying that she is making a pretty final decision impacting our entire family and evertyhing that we built up when she doesn't even know what she wanted. This happened about week 6 of the bomb. Needless to say, that didn't go over very well.

On Tues, when she called crying, she just said that she was sad about the situation. I couldn't get much more out of her. I think she sees our boys are sad/angry about this.

I know I need to be patient. That is a huge 180 for me.

Thanks for your insight and encouragement

[sandi2]

Hi Stuck,

Since we have been posting for a while and you kind of know how I am..... ,I hope you won't mind if I make a suggestion.

I understand fully what you are saying in the goals that you stated, however, if you look at them again, you will notice they are about "her" and what "she" will do or not do. Can you make them about "you" and what you will or won't do in order to arrive at those results that you are seeking? It goes back to not being able to control her......only yourself. See what I mean? It will have to be up to you to do the necessary work to arrive at those result.

I knew what you were saying......I just put it in a little different light.

Come visit me on my thead. I finally started a new one.

Take care,
Samdi

[MrBond]

Hi Sandi,

I also started a new thread and I posted the link on your new home. There's an interesting discussion going on their now about what I should do next and I can respond to you there.

Thanks!

[confusedinpa]

Hi confusedinpa,

You asked me to stop by and take a look at your thread. I tried to find the first post and got as far back as sometime in 2008, but never found where you actually came on the board. So, could you give me a very brief upgrade as to what your story is about? I gather that you are S and she had filed for a D. She apparently has not been out of the house long, but you don't want to wait for years only to find out it won't change facts.

Sandi,

Thanks for taking the time to check in on me and offer your thoughts.

Here is my first post in WAS

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1699420&page=5&fpart=1

Before I created my first post in Newcomers:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1702221&page=4&fpart=1

In short, my wife turned 36 this year and I will turn 41 in a couple of months. We have a 3 year old and 7 year old.

We had gone to marriage counseling all of 2008 but during that entire time, I kept telling her and the counselor that I didn't know why we were there as I love her dearly and am happy. That went on week after week without ever getting to what the problem was or how severe the problem was.

Then on Jan 9th, she dropped the bomb that she filed for divorce as she felt that I neglected her since late 2000/early 2001 (we got married in late 1999). I was crushed and begged and pleaded. She was very surprised as she expected me to be either relieved that the marriage as finally going to over or that I would be so angry I would just throw her out. She never expected me to work on the marriage.

I found a different counselor and we went for about 2 - 2.5 months. We got as far as she was hurt that I neglected her and that even though she sees how I've changed, she just can't see me as her husband any longer. She said that I've chipped away all her love for me so there was nothing left. Now everytime she sees me, she just feels hurt.

She stopped going to counseling with me about a week before she moved out on April 18th of this year, even though she said that she would continue after she moved out. Most recently she said that she wanted to find her own therapist to figure out how to move on from feeling hurt everytime she sees me before we start marriage counseling again. In the same conversation, she said that she hadn't changed her mind about the divorce. Very confusing.

As you can see from all of my threads, we still talk and even now we see each other. We do talk almost daily (either text/email or phone calls, mostly she initiates), usually about tactical stuff related to kids or going out with the kids. We had a couple of relationship related talks over the past 5 days. Both of those are on this thread (page 1 and 3). I can't tell if she's cake eating or if there is hope or if she's just using me to enable her to get through this sad time.

Any thoughts?

We had a tough relationship discussion tonite. I'll post that one in a little later.

I'm really curious what your read is on my WAW. As many here have said, this one seems more confusing than normal.

Thanks again for dropping by and I welcome your input!

[confusedinpa]

She just called saying that she was done with my 7 year old at the doctors. They put a cast on his arm which will stay on for 3 weeks.

She gave me the details of what the doctor said/suggested. Then I said that I wasn't sure what she had planned for the day, but she could just bring my son to my work. She said that she was planning on taking him to get a milkshake and wasn't planning on going back to work.

I said that I was thinking that if she dropped him off, I would pick up my youngest and try to get to the carnival that was starting up today. I didn't invite her, but wasn't sure if I should have. I'm just second guessing it as that is one of her pet peeves. That she didn't think that I include her in stuff, and inviting her was an after thought.

She did sound surprised when I said that she could just drop him off at my work.

Well, she sent me a picture of my son and his cast at the ice cream place. I called her to thank her for the picture as well as her help in taking care of it today. I did mention to her that she was welcome to join us for the carnival if she wanted to, but didn't want her to feel pressure to.

She said that she would think about it, but said that she was having pretty bad cramps today. I just said ok and I'll talk to her later then.

Oh well....

When she dropped him off with me at work, she said that she had mentioned to our 7 year old about the carnival and said that she was invited as well.

She said he had asked her if she was going to come as he wanted her to. She said she told him that she would think about it.

So she asked me to call her when I was going to go to the carnival.

After I picked up my 3 year old, we went home to change. We went to the baseball field first as my 3 year old wanted to do some hitting (I brought a kickball for my 7 year old to kick so he wouldn't feel left out).

I called my wife to tell her that we were at the ball field and that we were going to go at 6. I said she could either meet at our house so we could go over together or she could meet us there. I must have caught her at a really bad moment as she started stressing about just wanting to do what she wanted to do and not feel like she has to do what's expected. I said that she should do what she wants to do and not come just because she thought we expected her to. She then said that she didn't want to do family stuff together. I said then she shouldn't come if that's how she felt. She then said that I wasn't listening to her. She was really agitated. I told her, very calmly, that she was welcome to come if she wanted to come, but I don't want her to come if she is doesn't want or will be resentful of it. I said I know the boys and I will have fun if she came and we will have fun if she didn't. She got agitated to the point where she couldn't speak and said that she would call me back in 5 minutes.

I then told the boys that mommy still wasn't feeling well so she most likely won't be able to come with us. My 7 year old looked really disappointed but he didn't cry. I told him that we will still have fun. I don't think he really believed me.

As we were gettting ready to leave the ball field, my wife still hadn't called so I called her (I know - WRONG MOVE!!!). She answered and said she was just about to call me. I thought yeah right, but just said that we were about to head out and wanted to know what she was doing so I could tell the boys. She started by saying that she just wants to do what will make the boys happy. She said she was just trying to make it easiest for the boys during this interim period. I wanted to ask her what she meant by interim period. Instead, I wound up saying that I don't think she was really ready to do what would make them happy (implying coming back home) and feel that giving them false hope just adds to the hurt.

She then got agitated again as she said that she was about to say that she was going to go with us but is confused now as it sounded like I didn't want her to come. I then said, very calmly that I would love for her to come if she wanted to come, but not if she was coming just to appease me or the boys. I said either way, we will be going and enjoying ourselves. She then said that she just had a really bad week and really bad day and her cramps were really bothering her. She said that she would come and would meet us at the house so we could go together. I said that sounded good and I will see her at home.

When we got to the house, I let the boys ride their ride on toys around the yard as I shot some hoops waiting for my wife to show up.

She showed up, I put on my best positive attitude and smiled "Hi. You look great. Are you ready to go?"

She grumbled about feeling fat and grumpy. I just said I'm really sorry to hear that but this is the nicest nite we've had in a while so it should be a good time.

We drove over and as we walked to carnival, I asked if she wanted to eat first. She said she did so we went to the food area. We got our food and ate. I continued to stay upbeat and talk about positives. She tried to complain about some things, i.e. the onions and peppers on the sandwich was mushy and overcooked, but I tried to twist it into positives , i.e. this is pretty good for carnival food.

We were sitting in the shade so then she started to complain about getting cold. I almost said you are kidding right because it was in the mid 70's. I then rubbed her upper arm and she actually had goosebumps. I said holly cow, you are cold! I rubbed her arm a little to warm her up. She almost smiled.

We then went to get tickets for the rides. Normally I don't get the all you can ride deal as I didn't think we would get our money's worth, but she suggested that it may be a good idea. I just asked how much it was ($15/kid). I figured, what the heck, the most I would be out is $5 or $10 if it played out as expected. We went on three rides before my 3 year got to the point he was too scared to try anything else. Then my 7 year old said he didn't want to ride if his brother wasn't going to as he wanted to stay with him. I almost said WTF, but just kept walking through the carnival.

We finally found something they both liked and we stayed there as they kept riding it over and over again. After several times, my wife said that she thought that this was the break even point. I just shrugged and said - "Good call hun. It looks like the boys are having a blast and it's a really nice nite". I then asked if she wanted funnel cake or birch beer. She said birch beer. I picked one up for her and funnel cake for the boys. After a bit, I asked her about pretzels. She said that should go get them. So I said that the boys and I would have 2 so off she went to get pretzels.

Towards the end of the nite, she said that she was getting cold again. I touched her upper arm (she was wearing short sleeves) and she had goosebumps again. I stood behind her as I rubbed both her arms to warm her up . I then massaged her shoulders lightly and remarked how tense they felt. She said she was tense. I stopped and asked her if this was too much and making her tense. She said no so I did it for a few more minutes before the kids ran up to get some more pretzels and drink from us.

When it was time to go, we walked closely and I pulled her close and just kissed the side of her head saying I was glad she came. She didn't say anything.

I kept up my positive, upbeat attitude right up the point we got home. I shut off the car, just as she said I should leave it on. She then just said that since it's off, she will come in to go to the bathroom. I just smiled and said sure.

After she went to the bathroom, she gave the boys hugs and kiss. I wanted to give her a hug goodbye, but could sense that wasn't what she wanted so I just say goodnite and get home safe and I would talk to her later.

So it started out rough, but I don't think it went too bad.

Any thoughts/comments?

[Travis]

Listen to everyone here. I wish I would have found this site sooner, but I believe it's too late and I'm only two months in on my end (don't know how long WAW has really been in this position). I look back to 03/11, the day of the bomb/OM. I begged, pleaded, cried, everything to get her back. Decided to back off, but that would only last a couple days at most.
I found this site and now I look back and, for the short periods of time I was doing the things advised here without even being here, she was receptive. I told her to really think about if our R was worth giving up, and she came home that night and said she didn't think it was. Of course, me being me, I rushed right back in trying to be "us" again immediately, and the wall came up and it all started again.
I made a lot of mistakes along the way and now she is gone. I still didn't do anything wrong except love her too much, but pushing her is definitely not the way to go. Make her come to you. Standing your ground is not wrong, but don't make demands. If you really want your wife back, give her the space and stand all you can, but you have to respect yourself as well.
None of us are in a good spot here, or we wouldn't even be here, but there is good advice. I only wish I would've found this sooner. When you are the one going through it you feel as if you're on an island.
You are not on an island. As you now know, many of us are going through this. Do what you know is right and if she still leaves, at least you know you gave it your best shot. Just slow down and let it come. The more you pursue it, sometimes, the farther away it goes. Good luck to you, I wish you the best.