I totally disagree with your legal analysis. I AM A L and I hired one for MY sitch. I'd never dream I know more than the specialists do, even when I've graduated from law school and handled about 20 divorces for friends myself. I'd never hire the same one my h is and you are operating under some false assumptions. You distrust Lawyers so much and yet You say similar things about therapists, and I am wondering if there's some sort of issue you have with the ones who finished schooling or whatever..."penny wise and pound foolish" is ONE phrase that comes to mind. And you do a disservice to those who's expertise may seem to you to be "easy" but that's b/c you don't know what you don't know, no offense.
Whoa. I went to the best D attorney I know who happens to be a relative and I'm telling you what he advised me. That is not the end of story or never retain him or other lawyer...it is what he advised me after some 40+ years in practice. How am I assuming I know so much?? I am leaned toward following his advice because he is in the flesh super-experienced D lawyer who has offered to help. I value your insight as well so we are having a conversation about which way to go and what to do when. I don't think I know better than you, I think I am trying to figure this out.
Just b/c my h can do a spinal cord implant in under 30 minutes does not mean it didn't take him 13 years of POST high school training (college, med school, internship and residency and fellowship) to learn how to do it safely. I can do a will & Trust in 15 minutes - thanks to the thousands I did in the First Gulf War,...and the years I went to school, and the cases I've seen where the wills withstood challenges, and the software available that makes it so I know what questions to ask. I had 34 people come in with "homemade wills" off the internet and NOT ONE of them passed probate. Just such a tragic and sad drag to tell a widow that her h is not just dead; he also left her nothing, since the will was done or executed incorrectly or incompletely...hope I'm making my point. (But think of the savings! He didn't have to hire a Lawyer! Hope I'm making my point.) Can't think of anything I'd rather save money on LESS, than medical care and the rights to my children and property...
Mediation is nice...AFTER YOU SPEAK TO A L WHO ONLY REPRESENTS YOU....I cannot fathom why you'd think mediation is the goal BEFORE getting a L. IN MY BOOK you figure out what your rights are first before you decide to start compromising which is what mediation is....which is fine....but geez...
I have NO clue about whether mediation would make sense. I read about it and have wondered if it could help at least preliminarily to clean up debt and make some agreements but ok, no. You know, I read all kinds of stuff and some people seem to be using mediators more and having decent outcomes. Not sure why that is so inflammatory as I am looking at my options and you know I am tentative about D.
Let the L tell you to work it out in mediation if you can. ALL the L's I know would tell you that, so unless you only know sleaze balls, I'd say your POV is skewed pretty negatively. Heck, MY L talked me out of fiiling for a div and suggested I file the SEP instead b/c she said SHE still had "hope for our M"! So my experience is so different than yours. I have liked every lawyer we've had to hire or consult with.
The times I've seen the L bills skyrocket are when husbands or wives call their L's to tell their spouses' L that for instance, the wife wants to switch days and refuses to call her h directly. Or the h wants to pay 5% less since he now takes the kids to church on Sundays so he has them 5% more of their waking hours and blah blah blah TRUE EXAMPLES....
It's a power struggle they put the L's into and the L's get to bill for it but MOST lawyers find it stupid and annoying. Real legal issues are interesting & worth arguing but crappy little things that any mature couple can work out SHOULD be worked out without a L. That is not the fault of the L's. And if a time comes when he makes more money, AND he does not hide it and he does not mismanage it b/c somehow he'll be all better about it then...sure you can go after more...but if the time comes and he has a new woman, don't expect to ever know what he earns, or what she earns, or what she tells him to justify keeping more of it. Your trust in him, particularly in view of his money phobia is confusing to me but then--
This was not what I witnessed. Close friend had L advise her she would likely get WAY more than was possible and the two lawyers haggled over peanuts. Likewise, friends with major money spent $150,000, no kids, wife got not a whole lot and that was big time lawyers. My sis is a L and I love her AND, the name of the game is $$ so yes, I am nervous about it. BUT, just because I am nervous doesn't mean I'm not listening. I'm hanging on your words.
2nd thing--I'm very confused by you. You say wildly varying things about wth is going on in your sitch. Your h lives elsewhere, correct? he told your sister it's over and that he "tried", correct? He said he'd go to c FOR YOU, correct?
Now you say he is planning or willing to work on the R....???? WTH? Is this some sort of game? No. AJ said I should tell that to the kids (that we are working on R) and I said I could not tell them that because it is not true...I have been consistent, for now, H says it is over. Misunderstanding. I will say it again, he says he is done. But he still has expressed doubt and ambivalence and I've watched him spin about marriage and whether people are meant to be monogamous and honestly, he comes off as disillusioned, confused and grasping. He is surrounded by people who either don't care about M, want out but don't leave, cheat etc. I can't mind read but I can tell you that he talks about other people's sitches a lot and seems to be looking for signs. No one modeled for him in any way how to be a husband and father or why it might be worth sticking it out. He has taken a duffle bag to a friend's house and is traveling. All of his stuff is still here including his office. So, no, he is not completely out and once he has to leave this friend's house, I don't know where he'll go with no $$.
Which is it? Is this just a vacation of his? He wants to stay M but only legally or only part time? If this IS a time out, and he's willing to work on the M, then why don't you just do that? What's to tell the kids? Why not just Give him space and see what happens and give yourself a time limit internally, (not to disclose to him b/c that's an ultimatum and you are not capable of enforcing one in my opinion at this time and the worst thing to do is to give an ultimatum and NOT back it up. It'll undermine you forever.)Don't know and have been trying to ascertain and just lay low and be as cool as possible, however, SOME of his behavior has been erratic and loopy and the bills are mounting so I must take actions to deal with those issues. I am confused myself. Also YOU said he asked for a rub down and a HJ but won't take you out anywhere and acts single on the outside...am I hallucinating? Didn't you tell us that somewhere here?
Above is true. My point was that in our communication, he has gone out of his way to avoid any specifics and despite his not wearing his ring and expressing that we are not together, he seems to always want to diffuse any sense that I have that he is with other women sexually. I need to think about this and why I am so certain he sees himself as available...he has made references to me having given him permission to date to which I responded that it torments me to think about but he is in charge of his own behavior...maybe I was too vague. If he is out, I don't feel I am entitled to tell him what to do. I did tell him I do not want to be intimate with him if he is with other people and he said he wasn't but I don't know and feel naive believing that.
See, I could have sworn I read somewhere that he won't file himself but sees that you might...sometime....he wants out b/c he wants OW or has already or doesn't want to feel AS guilty (since we know he already feels guilty, as I thought he said that too, or maybe it was you mind reading) and he misses you guys but can't/won't go home b/c... then ....what? it'll be bad??...Truth is 25, I have been trying to figure it out. Something happened, something changed and pushed him over the edge. Looking back through our emails, I see that I DID do much of what I'm doing now by way of encouragement. BUT, and this is a major item I have left out, we have moved numerous times and went through a traumatic situation financially not too long ago and we lost our footing. I was the "we can get through this" girl, BUT, he was depressed, angry, blamed me. And my attempts to point out how desperately we needed to deal with the finances registered as he was never enough. No matter how I phrased it. We moved this last fall and I think that was part of it. I can see in the emails that I was struggling to make my biz work and was so stressed about $ and he was trying so hard and we weren't cutting it and we kept missing eachother's attempts to connect. The stress killed this R. Of course there are matters of character involved but overall, he just couldn't handle the pressure anymore. And now, I think I'm being different because I'm nice but he is still getting the same message (now from sis and of course from me just asking for more money) that he isn't cutting it. We were like two children with no real modeling trying to get on top of all of it. The debts were mounting and he started leaving town more and more and being more provocative. He saw this environment depressing him (his words) and killing him and he needed to get out or die. And now, he is just fighting and clawing for the brass ring so he can make it all better and achieve his dreams before it is too late. And, there is a possibility (he has said that he knows he may regret this one day), that he is just taking a gamble and if he can keep me cool and keep running, it'll all work out. As you said though, there would probably be a new flashier lady in that scenario but who knows? One of his big complaints was that I wouldn't come out more with him and have fun and while I regret that, I felt the ship was sinking and would go out once in a while but no money for babysitters and I was depressed. His tactic when depressed is go into Lalaland and perhaps shmooze his way out of it, mine was hanker down and try to come up with solutions. Neither was working too well.he can't promise or provide you a set amount of money each month, but nor does he want to see the bills Well, he made an agreement, it was just one he can't afford to keep unless he truly deprives himself. Our expenses are too high. So, in the face of his failure as family guy and mine as wife, he bailed and will settle for being a decent dad.... and he has a horrible track record financially (yet you think, somehow that seeing your relative L together THEN you guys can come up with some sort of financial plan that will HELP YOUR Position financially....what's so magic about the L seeing the two of you together? Like you are a team? You are not a team. If you were a team, this sitch would not exist. He's the player and you are the cheerleader. Do you think that someone else can fix all this and then it'll be fine??Nope. Just see that this could be a cart before the horse sitch and that the financial issue being so huge a factor, it could be wise to try to get a handle, whatever that may be, bankruptcy, whatever. I chose to see this as a watch what he does not what he says for the most part and I see that this money stress is a killer and he is running and hoping that a different direction will lead to the pot of gold because this sure wasn't doing it for him.---
Ok, I don't see him filing. Last we discussed it, I was saying that this R will not be like this if we D, we will not be buddies, we wont hang out and we wont have the kind of family time or communication we've been having. I said "you need to do some serious soul searching." He said "I know. That is why I haven't filed anything." Yes, he has said he feels guilty, about his birthday party I threw him last year, our anniversary, he apologized for not being a better husband (once or twice)...I have to think back on why else I think he feels guilty, perhaps it is more burdened and responsible. I don't want to mind read anymore so I am going to think more about this before extrapolating. Oh, just remembered I said, "don't you think that the debt and the finances are a lot of what you are running away from?" and he said "yes" and I said "wouldn't it be sad if we tore our family apart over that? And that was when he said, "I know. That is why I haven't filed anything."
The L was going to see HIM and go over I/E document and explain how it works to him. I don't know where we would go from there. I am totally open to your suggestions. I am confused and trying to sort it out.
Yes your tangent about the 10 y/o was way off. You don't know her or me or the situation and you went off about how we cause kids' cancer....and you almost missed the entire point to make some odd point of your own... I think you probably want to tell me about how doctors and modern medicine created her cancer and if only she knew you, or some other secret thing that you know, then nothing bad would have happend to her and.... blah blah blah. No offense, but yes Bad things do happen to good people. Harold Kushner wrote a book called "When Bad Things Happen To Good People" you might want to read. No matter how controlling and frightened and careful and cautious and SAFELY you think you live your life, It's not all preventable and sometimes lousy things DO happen and the only thing we can do is cope with the cards we are dealt. This explains a bit about why you are still going around the same loop in your head. You cannot believe that this is happening TO YOU...been there, done that. IT IS WHAT IT IS...There are no time machines to get a re-do, so you cannot get a guarantee your h won't do this again (like he can't get a guarantee you won't still manipulate for outcome control OR hold this over his head Or punish him or withdraw or whatever or die...) or that you'll always be healthy and etc. You have to face reality and move forward. I guess I'm a tad offended b/c you are so paranoid and suspicious that you refuse good advice b/c you think your fears mean you know more. But they just mean you are more fearful.
I apologize for offending you. I've experienced loss of life to cancer of people very close to me and it was horrific. In my line of work (biz), part of it entails research and I there are excessive amounts of carcinogens in the products, food, environment. Of course there is a genetic component and I don't think there is much I can do about it. It is a hot button for me because you have cosmetic companies researching a cure and in the meantime they sell products KNOWN to cause cancer and most are banned in the EU. The why is extremely important...Anyway, I see my sitch differently, I don't think this qualifies as a "bad thing happening to a good person," I think I chose H and have co-created this sitch. Maybe, I need to read the book again. It was given to me when Bio-dad died and of course, I was relatively helpless in that sitch.
You ONLY control your reaction and so far you are still so fear based on things... that your choices have not been good ones. Don't know what else to say. I want to help you but you have to change/help yourself and what I see over and over are requests for tips on how to deal with your h and the situation. Not how to grow as a woman or spiritual person or mother etc. What you want are tactics, not changes.
Yep. I agree. And I am seeing that clearly.
Those won't work. And for the record, you may write a lot but I am still so unclear about your explanation for why you stopped going dark when it got him to change the way he treated you. Are you saying that HIS "discomfort", hurt him or meant he was sad, and therefore you stopped going dark, and you are now instead choosing to tolerate crappy behavior from him, which YOU have admitted is intolerable? And do you believe that is good for YOU? Do you believe it is good for him? Do you believe he'll look back on how he mistreated you, and feel proud of himself? If you had stayed dark and just coped with HIS discomfort, he might have grown.
I've been thinking more about this too. After he went into my emails, I think I caved because I was so exposed and ended up explaining every little thing because he was making so many assumptions that were not true and really I did not want him running off about them. And, he wanted me and I wanted to think it could be that easy, that I opened the door a little and that he was coming in more and more and I was posting here and there was some debate as to whether I might be getting somewhere with it (though Sandi thought I should ditch him asap). If I had this clarity as to what was "working" I would have gotten back on track. It was my definition of working that was off. I just wanted him to have as many opportunities to experience me differently as possible. I still don't know what working is in this sitch.
Why does that terrify you more than what you have now?
Thinking about this more before I answer. Kind of the whole kit and kaboodle. (( j ))
If I want any chance of saving my marriage and my sanity, I think I need a JOB that pays enough to make a difference and I need it ASAP. The kids will survive. I can say I wish I had done it sooner but I did my best. Was working on my biz and had a part time job that paid me extra well (because it was a friend who knew what I was capable of) but that was short-lived because of revenue loss due to economy. I can't beat myself up but I need to find something and I am trying. I also have ALL duties related to kids while he is out of town and 90% when he is in town so I've got to work around that. The thing I guess I thought L would do would be to show H in stark numbers what will happen in D and how much money we are making versus spending and get the ball rolling on taking A direction whether bankruptcy or legal agreement or moving, something to get us out of catatonia and denial.
