PM Thread #5 - Hope new plan works

[25yearsmlc]

You CAN manage. You ARE managing.

FYI--- I would not continually tell your h that the kids will figure this all out. It may seem like a way to wake him up but it'll probably backfire on YOU. Frankly, yes they will figure this out. BUT they will also still love him and want to accept him and he will very likely feel forced to vilify you to justify himself.

Instead of reminding him of what they'll learn about him, just remind him of how you'll encourage their relationships. A guy can be a lousy h but a decent father. Since I think being a good h is part of being a great dad, I can only say "decent" father. But that's better than nothing, which is what some kids get when their bio dads feel too guilty to come around. So lose the guilt tripping b/c it'll hurt your kids and lessen any chance of a recon. The worse he feels about their view of him, the LESS likely he'll want to be part of their lives. Yes - you think/hope the opposite. You think he'll bend over backwards to -- what? COME BACK? No, that would prove he was wrong. The longer they believe that this is some sort of mutual problem, the more likely you have a chance of him feeling able to return. In the Art of War, (sorry for that reference) the author says you need to "Build a golden bridge for your enemy to retreat upon" and DB says you need to "Keep the Road Home Paved and Smooth.".

By "outing" him & OW at this point, or threatening it, indirectly, you are creating hurdles for him, rather than cornering him into a return the way you hoped.

I mean I do see that he MIGHT wake up and say "oh crap! I now value their opinions of me more than I value the thrill of OW" but he may instead think he can do a pretty good job of making you wrong, and him just "following his heart and finding his soul mate" and blah blah blah....but if he marries her, (UNLIKELY) then when they divorce (2nd M's that are due to adultery, have an 80% divorce rate --so good luck on that M if it happens)....tell the wedding guests to save their gift receipts---oh and then he'll have even more 'splainin' to do. Don't go down that worry road. Not yet anyhow. He's far from that position. I mean if he planned on marrying her, how would he keep them from meeting her? in sum, he does not plan on marrying her anytime soon.

As I may have said, you both would face risks in a reconciliation. He'd face the risk that you'll hold this over his head for life, or throw it in his face every fight, OR expect your demands and choices to be followed in an unequal M, b/c you are "sooo owed"...and he faces the risks that whatever changes you make are mere tactics to get him back and you'll revert to the "before" picture, as soon as you feel secure with him, IF that ever happens. And you face the risk of another A or more deception. And of becoming a bitter woman and lousy role model for your kids.

Making the other parent look bad increases the risks on all fronts. I think you know this and I admire you for your selfless approach here. It's healthy. Not fun, but healthy and given the..."givens" you really are doing your best. I don't have much else to say except Carry On.

((( j )))

[25yearsmlc]

You CAN manage. You ARE managing.

FYI--- I would not continually tell your h that the kids will figure this all out. It may seem like a way to wake him up but it'll probably backfire on YOU. Frankly, yes they will figure this out. BUT they will also still love him and want to accept him and he will very likely feel forced to vilify you to justify himself.

Instead of reminding him of what they'll learn about him, just remind him of how you'll encourage their relationships. A guy can be a lousy h but a decent father. Since I think being a good h is part of being a great dad, I can only say "decent" father. But that's better than nothing, which is what some kids get when their bio dads feel too guilty to come around. So lose the guilt tripping b/c it'll hurt your kids and lessen any chance of a recon. The worse he feels about their view of him, the LESS likely he'll want to be part of their lives. Yes - you think/hope the opposite. You think he'll bend over backwards to -- what? COME BACK? No, that would prove he was wrong. The longer they believe that this is some sort of mutual problem, the more likely you have a chance of him feeling able to return. In the Art of War, (sorry for that reference) the author says you need to "Build a golden bridge for your enemy to retreat upon" and DB says you need to "Keep the Road Home Paved and Smooth.".

By "outing" him & OW at this point, or threatening it, indirectly, you are creating hurdles for him, rather than cornering him into a return the way you hoped.

I mean I do see that he MIGHT wake up and say "oh crap! I now value their opinions of me more than I value the thrill of OW" but he may instead think he can do a pretty good job of making you wrong, and him just "following his heart and finding his soul mate" and blah blah blah....but if he marries her, (UNLIKELY) then when they divorce (2nd M's that are due to adultery, have an 80% divorce rate --so good luck on that M if it happens)....tell the wedding guests to save their gift receipts---oh and then he'll have even more 'splainin' to do. Don't go down that worry road. Not yet anyhow. He's far from that position. I mean if he planned on marrying her, how would he keep them from meeting her? in sum, he does not plan on marrying her anytime soon.

As I may have said, you both would face risks in a reconciliation. He'd face the risk that you'll hold this over his head for life, or throw it in his face every fight, OR expect your demands and choices to be followed in an unequal M, b/c you are "sooo owed"...and he faces the risks that whatever changes you make are mere tactics to get him back and you'll revert to the "before" picture, as soon as you feel secure with him, IF that ever happens. And you face the risk of another A or more deception. And of becoming a bitter woman and lousy role model for your kids.

Making the other parent look bad increases the risks on all fronts. I think you know this and I admire you for your selfless approach here. It's healthy. Not fun, but healthy and given the..."givens" you really are doing your best. I don't have much else to say except Carry On.

((( j )))

[PositivelyMommy]

Wow, 25yrsMLC, I needed that! I needed you to knock me over the head with reason and see what I was doing. Thankyou very much! I am getting a better sense of strategy now. You see, I was thinking erroneously about him coming back if he didn't want the kids to see him in a bad light. Yes, I was really concerned for his relationship with them and I really didn't want to badmouth him and I couldn't get around the conundrum of me not wanting to lie to them and the kids figuring out what really happened and still want to have a relationship with their dad.

Now that you explained the golden bridge, it makes more sense. I like the Art of War, so don't worry about that. I will keep encouraging their R, it's what I want because I don't want my kids to hurt, now or ever.

Your assumption is right, he doesn't plan on marrying her, that's why he told the C at our joint session that he never wants to introduce her to the kids! HOw is that going to work? My little kids will stay in a hotel with their dad when they fly to visit him?? Puzzling. So no, he intends to keep that part of his life in a bubble and away from his life with the children. It's his way of controlling the situation and also his way to PR his way out of trouble.

The last thing I want is to hold things over his head, that is why I tried so hard to patch things up after the 'ONS' but the thing was, his heart just wasn't in it. I don't know what the future holds or even how I will feel if we ever get back together again (not likely it seems) but I want to be on solid ground if that happens, not like before.

I won't mention the kids figuring things out again, not to H anyway. I just have a hard time telling them that our M is broken and it was half my fault. I don't want them to think that I didn't try or that I don't love their dad anymore. I don't want them to think that it's OK to give up when it doesn't feel good anymore. All the lessons that their dad is teaching them, all the warped values, right now. I feel trapped. I can't tell the truth and I feel I have to continue to cover up for him because maybe ONE DAY he might deem me worthy enough to give it a second shot. So trapped.

[karen43]

All the lessons that their dad is teaching them, all the warped values, right now. I feel trapped. I can't tell the truth and I feel I have to continue to cover up for him because maybe ONE DAY he might deem me worthy enough to give it a second shot. So trapped.

I always worry about that too. But I think kids realize the role models they should follow. I do think that you don't want to trash talk their dad, but if asked a direct question, I don't think you should lie or cover up for him. I'm always truthful with my kids but try to be tactful. Karen

[25yearsmlc]

"Half your fault"....um forget that. It's a lie isnt' it? I mean if it IS true, fine. OWn that. But I doubt it.
Why not Say "If I could do things over, I'd do some things differently. But It didn't turn out the way I wanted it to...(then turn the convo into a positive--) BUT I'M SO GLAD TO HAVE YOU KIDS IN MY LIFE I WOULD CLIMB MOUNT EVEREST IN HIGH HEELS FOR THAT" you say this in case they feel responsible for anything. Your telling them that THANKS TO THEM, you look back on the M fondly, OVERRALL-- I told my kids that if the only way I could have them in my life was to go through hell and back with H, and even end up div, I'd do it all again in a heart beat. Despite the crap and unfairness, etc. I was grateful for the M for it gave me THEM... and I told them that often. They are the most important sources of joy in my life and the best "achievements" I've made. No divorce or crappy M will ever outweigh that and you must not let your anger at your h, no matter how richly deserved, EVER outweigh your love for your kids.

See if you can find the book "What About the Kids?" and read it. Don't give it to your h either. If you must, then not until after you've read it and even then I'd highlight the parts that won't guilt him as much. Like focus on what you both must say and how to act around each other and things like that. WHY? B/c The beginning of the book is so sad about divorce and your h will see that as pressure probably. So, maybe just have it laying around in a place THEY cannot see it, but your h might?? Really just read it for yourself so your questions will be answered.

Gotta get some sleep now. Take care,

(( j ))

[PositivelyMommy]

Thanks to you Karen and 25yrsMLC. I went to see the school counsellor today and he basically said the same thing. I wanted to find the language that I could live with, I want to be careful with my words. I don't want to hurt the kids or their R with their dad. I always wanted them to have a good R with their R, that's what started this whole thing. Me nagging H to be a better father. So it's ironic isn't it, I lost my H and now I am still trying to help his R with the kids.

He said I could tell them that Mommy tried very hard to make this work but it just didn't work out. I love you kids so much and will always always love you.
Also to reassure them of the things that will be constant in their lives because they will try to test us. They will ask us to do things and we better step up. He said that there are families out there who handle separation and D very well and the kids turn out fine. My S9 has a negative filter so I will try to help him not feel that he is in anyway responsible.
I love them SO much, they are such beautiful children. I really don't want this to change them.

[25yearsmlc]

Well it will change them. Accept that. So would a wrestling camp or a trip to Europe and not all the changes are bad or good. I don't mean to minimize this but just dealing w/ reality. I sat next to a 50 y/o woman on a long flight back from Europe who said her parent's divorce was "actually alright". They remained close geographically, and even the blended families EVENTUALLY did alright. She recalls the fighting before the Div and not a lot of it later. Her parents both remarried and are happier, and that was that. She also loves her step sister. So....years later it was Not all a total nightmare. I know you Try to imagine some scenarios wherein YOU are happily single or with someone else. Do the same for the kids. I mean maybe this woman was "in denial" but I don't think so. Sometimes kids get that the parents were no longer suited and they accept it. Sometimes they don't get it until later when they see someone like you HAPPY with another man. My older sister is a lot happier in this M than her first. Her ex left her with 3 kids after 22 years and b/c she had worked full time ALL their M and put him through law school, in THAT state she got NONE of his salary. He made twice her salary and paid her $150 per month in "alimony", until she remarried AND he got half the assets, etc. And he was a cheater...nice, huh? But she's happier. She told me she would "never go back to what she had with 1st h now that she knows what it's like to be a priority in a h's life"... Her ex did her a favor. NOW that the kids see HER happy, they are alright with things. That was the kicker; as long as she was wounded, things were harder for the kids but when she healed, they really began to. They see their dad now as a sad man; kind of a tragic figure. He remarried and guess what? His new wife is "high maintenance" (HIS words...)...

If a child has to worry that a parent is going to crash and burn, that's the type of thing that really scars them OR if one parent drops off the face of the earth. You cannot control that. If your h disappears, at least you'll have peace. ??
j-

[PositivelyMommy]

Thanks for putting things into perspective 25yrsMLC.

[PositivelyMommy]

Things have been very painful for me this week and especially today. I feel a wreck. I saw my IC and also another school counsellor today to talk about how to best approach the subject of separation with the kids. I am getting a whole lot of good advice but also this is a realization that my H's decision is final and it's like I am mourning my M all over again.

My IC (who is also H's IC) said to me today that there is little to no chance that H will come home. I told him that confirms what I thought. He said H doesn't consider me an option, he just sees me as the wrong choice. He also said that right now H feels 'contempt' for me. Wow, what a strong word but I think he is right. I feel it.

IC said that he needs to feel contempt for me so that he can feel superior and therefore makes it easier for him to move on with his life. I think he is right. I think he started feeling contempt for me when he started the A, how convenient right? Contempt came with his onset of guilt. Much easier to deal with contempt than one's own feelings of guilt. ( We had renewed our vows two months before he said he started the affair so if he felt contempt for me before then we would not be renewing vows.)

So I know that contempt is a big coverup. How convenient. IC said that the contempt may die down after 2 or 3 or 4 years and then maybe kindness and caring might come back between us.

So that's the verdict from our IC, a man who knows both of us intimately so I have to take his view on things as pretty accurate. So that is why I am ultra sad today because I have to face the reality that he has permanently left, that I am not in his heart, that he uses contempt for me to ease his guilt.

I am distraught.

This is very tough. I called my parents and they were very supportive. They are wonderful parents. My Mom said that I deserve better and I shouldn't worry so much about H anymore that he didn't appreciate me and he is not worth it. I am beginning to come around to her way of thinking. My Dad said that one day, maybe I will find someone who is better than H, who will be nicer to me and treat me better.

My IC was trying to be encouraging and said that one day I might find someone who is attracted to my character, the light from within. I told him I want my H and started crying. IC asked if I was scared. I told him that I was not scared. That this time last year I was scared but I have grown stronger. Now I am just incredibly sad.

He said it's time to think about me now, to put me first. He said I spent my life putting other people first but now if I put myself first then everyone benefits. I will try to think on that and implement that.

[karen43]

Sorry you're having a rough week. I think this whole thing is a process: I was in shock, then sad, had an angry phase, now I'm finally feeling a little more detached, but I'm still working on that.

I do think it's important to put yourself higher on the priority list. I always used to put myself last, but my kids actually appreciate I'm doing stuff for myself; they say I'm happier and more fun now. Your IC sounds very wise.

Yes, your H may or may not come back. But you knew that. If he never learns to appreciate how wonderful you are, then you will find someone that does!!!

Karen