What I meant is: it's not necessarily reflective of your whole relationship. Just because she feels that way at one moment in time doesn't mean that she always feels that way.
It is in the shelter of each other that people live.--Irish proverb
Plus, you said that her patterns with the OM were the same as they are with you--I think you said that she just gave him enough to keep him hanging on. To me, that clearly indicates that the main problem is not her attraction to you.
It is in the shelter of each other that people live.--Irish proverb
I think there's another theory, far less complex, that would explain her behavior:
She loves me, loves being married and loves our family, knows sex is very important to me (primary LL), but just isn't attracted to me.
In fact, by her silence to me asking her that last year, she more or less admitted that.
I think there's another possibility--what she couldn't express is that she's not attracted to "the It," or to you as a morally superior father figure. That's not supposed to be a slam in any way--I just think it's the way she relates to you most of the time. I wonder if, when there's a threat of divorce, you become less "fatherly" or less morally superior; or she's more in touch with her feelings of attraction to you because her barriers are down. Just thinking out loud.
M60 H52 D20 M14 yrs OW-old gf from 1986 bomb-5/18/08 H filed for D-9/10/08 D final 4/24/09 xH remarried (not OW) 2012
Puppy - the attraction switch could possibly be turned off, that is true.
However, it is also true that this switch can turn back on in an instant under the right conditions. And it can last, too...you just both need that deep work and therapy to recapture it.
If she's willing to do the work, it can all come back and more and more and more...try to have faith that its possible and try to envision her being healed from her stuff, and you both being new and loving toward each other...it CAN happen! Picture your fantasy of a happy marriage and sex life with her. What can it hurt?
"I think there's another theory, far less complex, that would explain her behavior:
She loves me, loves being married and loves our family, knows sex is very important to me (primary LL), but just isn't attracted to me.
In fact, by her silence to me asking her that last year, she more or less admitted that."
Yes, I think that is it. But, that doesn't mean it has to be that way. HM has it right, I think.
There is a good chance that the reason that is the case is that when she is with you, she is in the wife/mother oppressed sexuality role. The only time she breaks out of that role is when D is on the horizon and she can start to feel like single woman/lover rather than wife/mother. It isn't the *single* that is important there. It is the woman/lover. And, I think you have shown you both that you can be a man/lover to her woman/lover. You just need to make that work in the context of an M side by side with wife/mother and husband/father.
FWIW, I think hot sex in a context in which W doesn't feel responsible for your enjoyment or what kind of sex you have is a lot more powerful cure than IC or MC. Whatever happens, the space has to be there to reinvent oneself sexually -- and that happens through practice, not theory
I was in IC and MC for YEARS trying to get to a good sex life with XH. It got me nowhere. If you want therapy, maybe try a SEX therapist -- something I never did. The run of the mill MC just doesn't really seem equipped to do real SEX therapy.
It was with D and new-H that I found it, through practice
The only time she breaks out of that role is when D is on the horizon and she can start to feel like single woman/lover rather than wife/mother. It isn't the *single* that is important there. It is the woman/lover. And, I think you have shown you both that you can be a man/lover to her woman/lover. You just need to make that work in the context of an M side by side with wife/mother and husband/father.
FWIW I think this is a huge part of it. When things get to this point, all of the old roles change and everyone begins to relate in a different way. Breaking out of the old "comfort zones" and roles that we consciously/unconsciously place ourselves and each other into within the context of a R or M. Once your interractions with each other change, then the dynamics change and people start feel free to explore different roles. I also think that there is a lot of validity in what DQ and OT are saying. I can only speak for myself here, but once I felt completely relegated to the role of "wife/mother" the ability to be "wife/dirty girl" kinda died out. It wasn't even so much that my H made me feel that way, but I took on that persona and it was hard for me to let it go and in doing that, it was in turn hard for H to see me as anything else. Its a cycle that feeds on itself. Like we all tell each other, don't keep going down cheeseless tunnels. Examine whats worked and try and go from there. Don't give up Pup, if there was really no way for her to express herself sexually with you, the "hot" encounters that you had recently wouldn't have happened. Mrs. Puppy has some work to do to figure out how to be both "mom" and "hot sex, Mrs. Puppy", but in that you both have some work to do on examining the boxes that you have put yourselves and each other in within the context of your R. Not a slam, just an opinion.
M:39 H:39 K:S14;D8 T:22yr M:15yrs S:12/28/07 EA/PA 3/14/08 OW preg 11/17/08 born 12/12/08 his ~~~~~~~ Never allow someone to be your priority while allowing yourself to be their option
I feel like I have been well education! Thank you all. And, Old Timer.....my gosh! All this time I thought you were a man.....LOL. I have read a lot of your posts but never your thread and I never remember you saying anything to give me the impression of your gender, but for some reason (maybe the name?) I just thought you were a "he". Please forgive me.....I would not wish that on anybody....lol.
Dance Queen, it has amazed me at what you told of your first MR. That was my story! I just did not know how to word it like you. I am still thinking about it all.
Puppy, you said I sounded like I was contradicting myself in my last post (which was a dozen pages ago). I suppose I did since I did not really know how to explain myself. I think I was trying to show you the frustration that your wife was feeling by turning you down and not having the feelings spring forth at that moment that "you" needed her to have for you. So, she acts like a b*tch so you will leave her alone! Oh, I've been there. The tears where he couldn't see, the sexual frustration....the whole bit. I went from my 40's to my 50's without any sexual contact! I've told the story, so no use in going over it again. Talk about stubborn wills! However, it caused me to be ripe for an EA and I didn't have the good sense to know it. I don't want to get into a debate about any of this b/c I've been down that path and it is too exhausting! But again, I must say that soooo much of what DQ said, and OT too, applied to me. I was a teenager when I M and had a baby the first year. I was molded into that role and yes, I think it had an effect on me! And.....I needed counseling very badly!
Puppy, I don't know if your W is LD or HD, but as I heard one person say, "In every M, one of the partners will being higher drive than the other one". Makes sense, doesn't it?
I will say again that she IMHO, she needs professional help. It may be something that could be fixed rather easily by the right person, or it may have very deep roots, but I don't think any of us knows that.....only a psy doctor could tell.
I know you are tired of reading all of this. A break will do you good. You know you are our "favorite" here on the board. Take care of yourself.
Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Well, I think the only thing we know for sure is your W needs IC. The cool thing is you know you have gone above & beyond working on your M. I don't think my M could have been saved by IC or MC, but I would have appreciated an H that would have been willing to try.
I don't think you should worry about "it", well at least try not to. Get an MC that specializes in sexual issues and let them worry about it!!! Karen
