Things are coming to a crunch.My LRT is making H even more angry. And this morning he blew up about the unpaid electricity bill-it`s in his name and he has always paid it as we don`t have a joint acc.
But of course it was about more than unpaid bills. He was angry with me for taking him to court for physically intimidating him. I tried to validate as much as possible "I know you are angry" "I understand you are hurt" and "We have to move on"
I also told him I has grieved for the relationship and recognize that we`re at a point where maybe we just have to let each other go and yet, keeps things as amicable and businesslike as possible for the sake of the children.
I said this wasn`t the time to talk about it as the kids were coming down for breakfast. I said perhaps we could talk about it tonight.
Oh he`s angry. And I think the electricity bill is just one of his ways to try and get at me. He knows I don`t overspend. He knows I`m earning less than him and knows from my statements where my money goes. He`s just trying to hurt me.
But we do need to set up a joint acc and nows my chance to get that. Even if/when we separate we`ll need it and it gives us greater independence to do whatever we want with our own money(or what will be left of it). My H has stalled on filling tax returns, and wants to keep most of our savings in his name. Time to get that sorted too.
I`m just aiming tonight to validate anything he has to say-not agree, just validate. We won`t get the finaces sorted in one night either. He can pay that bill out of our savings. But we can answer his concerns over the finances by having a more transparent system of bill payment.
So my mantras will be "I know you`re upset" "I understand you are hurt" "I`d like to think about that"
I know he is hurt but I believe he just wants to blame the death of our relationship on me.And probably avenge his hurt too while he`s at it.
So he gets to have an A, he refuses to go to MC, he physically intimidates me and yet its all my fault...
Hmmmm.
But I won`t say that of course.
Truth is I really don`t know if I`ll be negotiating for the best possible Separation or to keep the M. Because I just don`t know what I want.
But, at least detaching from me has left me in a calmer place.
I think you have a pretty good grasp on what he is up to. He is trying to blame you for anything that he can. And then some!
I'm trying to figure out how a joint account is going to be useful. I wouldn't think it would be good to be responsible for anything with his name on it. If you need money from him, I think you would want it in an account that only you could draw from. But having a clear plan of who is responsible for what is certainly a good idea.
For as rotten a situation as you are in, you are sounding good! Detaching helps.
Thanks Jeff, the more opinions I get the better-and I really am keeping this stuff away from friends/family at this stage.
Joint account-we`d both pay a set amount into it every month and it would only be for household-utilities, groceries, kids` needs, insurance policies etc.
Yes, I do think its just a ruse on his part. Some way to channel his anger.
Well, as I suspected the unpaid electricity bill was just another bait H had thrown to upset me. Once I calmly suggested a solution he let go off all his pent up emotion and we had the first decent talk for many months.
And the best part was I just listened and validated what he had to say.
Not all the time, but as much as I could which was a huge 180 for overly defensive me.
The worst part is that he wants us to separate. And he refuses to leave the family home;he wants me to leave.
But anyway.
I listened. And I heard how hurt he is and deeply, deeply angry. Oh and it did not surprise me that he utterly blames me for everything. I listened and said "I know you`re really hurt. I can see how angry you are" I did not apologise for taking him to court for physically intimidating me thoug I can see how that has hurt him I needed to protect me and the kids from his anger and he needs to deal with his anger; i did not do it out of revenge. But I didn`t say any of that;just acknowledged that he was hurt.
He said I was a hard woman with no vulnerablities. I know that`s not true but I did not defend myself. I said I was sorry that I did not appreciate the good times when we had them but instead that I complained too much during those times. I said yes, you are right I am too perfect, I want always to be the one who is right and yes, I did not listen to you enough.
He went on and one-maybe 40 minutes-a lot for him. He even said in that time that we should tell the children then and there that we were separating but I said we couldn`t land it on them just like that.
You know, I don`t know if we will separate-any more than we already are that is. He won`t go and I`m not going to push him out. I won`t go and I espect he may throw more barbs at me to make me go or to upset me.
I can`t believe he had finally spoken though. I told him I was glad he shared his thoughts that I hadnt seen things from his perspective. I broke up the discussion by saying I better go see to the kids-who were downstairs at this time.
This morning he was a teensy bit softer-did say `goodbye` when leaving and did tell me where he was going tonight when he was heading out.
Teensy, weensy bit of progress there.We`re both in a stuck place though. I`m going to let the land lie and chill for a while. Hope he won`t throw another barb for a couple of days, keep my LRT going(thanks Michelle, I think its really shifting something here!). I know my tone was softer, sadder lessconfident than usual this evening, Not deliberately so but maybe that`s the vulnerable place I need to show without begging, whining or looking for R talk.
Did he tell you why he thinks you should be the one to leave?
Anyway, if he thinks you should seperate, but he won't leave, you can almost bet that he will continue to throw down barbs. the'll probably get worse, and more frequent. I would guess that he is going to do his best to make you be the "bad guy". (Which is probably why he won't leave.) Be ready for it, because it won't be pleasant.
I don't think you want to aim for less confident, just more understanding. Admitting that you have fault is ok, but don't let him give you all the blame.
He thinks the M breakdown is all because I took him to court for to seek a protection order. Even though the court was held in camera-ie not a public court-he feels I`ve destroyed his reputation and so I should leave the home. And anyway, he says he can mind the kids every bit as well as I can.
In this country though,(Ireland) the mother is generally given custody of the children and it is also preferred by the family courts that the children stay in the family home.
I have sought legal advice on this issue in the past and urged H to do so but he says he doesn`t want to go to a solicitor or to the courts ever again. Even though he is not willing to negotiate the terms of the separation with me in terms of finance or anything else so taking him to court would be my only option in terms of forging a separation.
In other words, I believe, he does not know what he wants. Except that he is adamant that he doesn`t want me.
Ok, he`s in a fog. And yes, I can see how he needs to blame me. Oh and ignore the fact that the affair affected the M or indeed that he physically intimidated me in the first place("it was just an outburst of anger". Yeah, right)
But I get that I have to just listen and not defend. And I suspect given that I am definitely not leaving my kids, that I`m in for a major punishment from him from now on.
How to play that one? I just don`t know. I do feel very sad about all of this.
I am so sorry that I didn`t listen enough before, that I was too defensive and less carefree. I`m sorry he bottled up so much and didn`t share.
Just read back through the one of the LRT threads on this forum and I`ve been reminded that I have to stay in control of me here. No pushing and pulling H in this. No falling into limbo with him. Yeah, our sitch is difficult but there is more to my life.
Yeah, I feel sad today. I feel the weight of sadness in my heart, like as if someone had died. But where`s that going to get me?
The way H is, he hates me when I`m strong, he hates me when I`m vulnerable(depite what he says: he physically intimidated me when I was very sick). As a dear friend said; He even hates the smell of you.
So, maybe in being sad I`m subconsciously trying to pull him in. but my head tells me that won`t work.
He`s stuck. If he could stick me in his spot too, he would. I`m sticking with my changes-being unpredictable, minding me, developing my hobbies.
In short, I`m going to keep the focus on everything else except the M.
He`s NOT looking for R talk. His actions show he hates me. He tells me I`m a hard woman, he FULLY blames me for everything. all his questions were centred around HIM:"Do you know the two most important things to me? No you don`t. See you don`t get me" (I`d guessed football and the kids; I was wrong it was football and his home county....)
And I offered him friendship. No not R talk.Just that I hated to see the anger eating him up, like I`d hate to see any frined in trouble and that he was the father of my children and,even though we didn`t love each other(well, I sure as hell don`t love him the way he is now) I would still be concerned for him as a friend.
Yeah, right. Maybe I said too much there.
Anyway, I didn`t want to show anger or defensiveness.
Let him go and lick his wounds. His capacity fro self pity is enormous. And he did admit he cares so much about what other people think and chided me for not realising that!I`m vain, I care about what other`s think and you`ve ruined my reputation in town.
Yeah, right, so your chasing a bit of skirt around the office was good for your reputation,huh? But I resisted saying that too.
I`m don`t know if I want him or not any more and that is the truth as I see it right now! He is so self centred and angry and unloving.I know I want the marriage and not the man and not even this marriage but a better one.
I`m ringing a C this evening. I need to get my head around this somehow.
You are getting a good grasp on things. The only thing I would say is that you should trp to detach further from his "stuff". He doesn't want you to be his friend now, so there's no point in offering.
He said that football is more important to him than his kids? I think you may have quite a mountain to climb here!
He is going to blame you for "ruining his reputaion". But, you know he did it himself. You did what you had to do to protect yourself. He isn't going to let it drop. of course.
I was wondering where you were from. I was thinking UK, but you had said some things that just didn't add up to that... so Ireland makes a lot of sense! Just don't tell me you have red hair and green eyes!
Just about crawling now. You were right,he is already throwing down more barbs. Went on the attack again last night-was I going to pay bills I calmly reiterated what I had said-CHeck my account you`ll see that I am already paying and have very little money I can`t pay the electricity bill too on top of groceries, children`s needs etc. But if you want more tranparency we could open a joint acc. He refused to entertain that.
He then asked me if I was siphoning off monay.
And then asked why had I copied his payslip onto my computer acc. I didn`t answer becasue the truth is I copied financial doc because I don`t trust him and wanted to get to know our financial sitch before this goes to court.
He said he has to `start defending himself around here`
I just felt so damn down after that I went to my room and cried. My sis rang I took the call and soon he was in hpping around trying to hear what we were saying.
Yeah, its the Great Punishment time. And he wants me to play the PAgame with him
In the PA game the PA gets to make all the rules and change them whenever he wants. H`s version of it in the past was to force me into making a decision-and then blame me when I made the decision.
He`s nuts. He won`t leave, wont love, wants me to leave but won`t look after the house and does minimal stuff with the kids.
Time for him to take up his precious(insert your adjective of choice here) ball and go off to his wonderful hometown.
I can go to a solicitor to get the separation goin. I`m very tempted. The one thing stopping me is the financial devastation particularly as H will drag his heels at every turn.
Well, that was predictable enough. It isn't going to get easier! He is going to do his best to make you miserable, I think. Smiling while he tries might be the best medicine!
You might not have a lot of choice but to see the solicitor. You've got to protect yourself, and while it might not be pretty, it might be a lot better than the alternative.
I think his reaction makes it pretty clear that you need to be watching him carefully. I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him.
