But I will say anyway, I think your wife is good at calling your bluff. Threathening divorce is serious. The End, right? Goodbye I'm done. So shes screws you; twice for good measure. And you back down/melt.
It's not normal for someone to take two hours to get ready to go somewhere, or over an hour just to get ready to go to the gym to work out, or 15 minutes gazing at herself in a mirror, I'm sorry.
Actually, beg to differ. The above is *perfectly* normal behavior ... for an adolscent girl. Annoying, but normal.
The abnormality arises when you look at the date of birth on her driver's license.
This is undoubtedly something that will/should be addressed in her IC. In fact, this whole conversation just seems to be so much wheel-spinning in advance of that....
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
Adolescent. Those pesky e's always get away from you.
Also, I believe this has been pointed out to you before .... but the abovementioned behaviors are overwhelmingly unlikely to reveal that she thinks she is all that and a box of chips. You take two hours to get ready when you are desperately thrashing around to find something that doesn't make you look revoltingly hideous (in your mind). Put that together with her Google searches and yes, even the affair ... to me that adds up to someone trying to fill a howling wilderness within. Compassion is in order.
That, and a gentle smack upside the head (grin) .... but her counselor is probably the only person who could administer that effectively.
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
Also, I believe this has been pointed out to you before .... but the abovementioned behaviors are overwhelmingly unlikely to reveal that she thinks she is all that and a box of chips. You take two hours to get ready when you are desperately thrashing around to find something that doesn't make you look revoltingly hideous (in your mind). Put that together with her Google searches and yes, even the affair ... to me that adds up to someone trying to fill a howling wilderness within.
But I will say anyway, I think your wife is good at calling your bluff. Threathening divorce is serious. The End, right? Goodbye I'm done. So shes screws you; twice for good measure. And you back down/melt.
Yep. Every damned time.
Of course, the other way to read this is that when divorce is really on the table, W is able to feel like she has broken out of the wife/mother role and thus is able to be sexual.
And that is the THIRD theory that you failed to mention here:
Quote:
Quote: One question: how did you "do what worked" the other weekend when you ML twice? I saw no information that you posted about what led up to that.
Well, there are two theories. One is that we had a nice time together that evening, just bonding, talking, and more than a little wine, and that the pending divorce (our 2nd -- and most likely final -- appt. with the mediator was scheduled for 7 days later, and we were due to tell our boys we were divorcing 8 days later) took all of the pressure off of us as "husband" and "wife" and we were able to relax and have a good time. The other is that it is ONLY when there is some gun to her head that my wife is sufficiently motivated to try to dig down deep and find the effort necessary to be affectionate. When I try to look impartially at the evidence, I can say that there have been HUNDREDS of times in our marriage when I have been playful, relaxed, we've talked for hours, and had a nice date. Those that led to sex I could count on two hands. On the other hand, there have been only a handful of times when we've had a pending "gun" -- separation, divorce, scheduled talk with our kids, etc. ALL of those times led to sex, and a return to intimacy by my wife.
I dunno puppy. You keep not HEARING what we women (Sandi, I am a woman, BTW) are telling you. IT IS NOT BECAUSE YOU HAD NICE SWEET RELAXED ENJOYABLE TIME TOGETHER. Like you said, that happened plenty during your marriage. It does nothing to take her out of the wife/mother role in which she doesn't feel free sexually. INSTEAD WHAT WE ARE SAYING IS THAT IT WAS THE PENDING DIVORCE THAT LET HER FEEL FREE COMBINED WITH YOU THEN CLEARLY MAKING SPACE FOR DIRTY GIRL SEX that led to the hot sex.
This THIRD option seems to be incommunicable to you. It is actually NOT ABOUT YOU at all. It is not about manipulating you. It is not about saving your M. Instead, it is all about her finally finding a bit of sexual freedom and authenticity, happily when she could experience it with you. IF you can make the space within the M for your W to break out of her repressed wife/mother sexuality, THEN maybe sex wouldn't drop off. HOWEVER, the first thing you did after hot sex was push the good wife/mother SHOULDS at her. So, she fell right back into her wife/mother role in which sex is tedious for her. And, you go right back into your selfish/vain/manipulator/frigid/LD/NPD stories about W which HAVE GOTTEN YOU NOWHERE.
So, again, why hold onto them so tightly? What if the THIRD option that can't quite manage to even make it between your ears for clear consideration is in fact correct?
To me, you seem to lack as much empathy for the sexual bind your W is in as she lacks for the sexual bind you are in. This is understandable -- when people hurt so very much, the spare emotional resources for empathy are scant. But, if anything, she at least seems more open to trying to understand your pain than you are to her pain. You have a very rigid script about her sexuality -- it is going to get your sex life and your M nowhere fast.
Hmmmmm.... I wonder if possibly something similar is going on with you and your husband vs. lover sexuality. Divorce-pending weekend you play open-marriage and menage-a-trois and have great dirty sex. Then you slide back into proper husband role and cringe at the idea of telling your wife to get on her knees on the bed fresh from the shower. Instead, you do the tentative sexual approach of the sort that made my skin crawl when I was trapped in a SSM, though I desperately wanted hot sex.
As for the overgrooming -- my sympathies, that kind of thing drives me crazy. But, the grown women I know who overgroom like that are actually horribly insecure.
Except that she IS my wife, and she IS a mother. While it's fun to do the "husband of a dirtygirl" thing every now and again OT, it's not a personae that feels authentic for me to take on in any sort of an ongoing way.
YOU seem to be missing the fact that I have been the far, FAR kinkier, higher-drive, higher-touch partner in this marriage of 24 years. I have BEEN the one to introduce fantasy, role-playing, MB, soft porn, dirty talk, etc., into our marriage and our lovemaking over the years. NONE of these were ever initiated by her, nor were they ever effectively even CARRIED ON by her after I (I thought) pretty "safely" introduced them to the bed, and we had a bunch of fun with them. I never ridiculed her or teased or did any "OMG, what did we DO last night???? thing with her.
