OK, I just read through your first thread, and I have some thoughts:
She seems to be coming and going as she pleases. Are you the primary caretaker of your daughter? If so, you should be documenting that. You also should be documenting all the nights she sleeps elsewhere. This information might be relevant in a custody battle. I also hope that you have consulted an attorney to educate yourself about your rights and responsibilities. If you really believe that she may have a personality disorder, you should ask the attorney what bearing that might have on custody--do you really want someone with a personality disorder raising D3? You need to protect yourself and D3 in the event that things go even more sideways.
I just noticed that she never really moved out. So, I would assume that her "change of heart" during your counseling session had more to do with the cost of finding her own place than with anything else. By agreeing to a "roommate" status, you've tacitly accepted her choices. You were in a much more powerful position when the clock was ticking on her either moving out or committing to the relationship.
I think you should move ahead with the re-decorating/remodeling plans that you talked about previously. Do not consult your wife, or even tell her that it's coming. Just make the changes. I think this will help you in many ways:
1. It gives you something pleasant and productive to work on that has nothing to do with your wife's choices. 2. It will help you feel like you're moving foreward, with or without your wife. (She'll see that too, trust me) 3. It will remind her that the clock is indeed ticking, and that she is not in control of how long she has.
If she flips you any crap about the changes you can just tell her, "this will be my and D3's home no matter what I decide to do in this relationship, so I want it to be comfortable for me." That will remind her that she's not the only pilot on the plane.
Re-read "No More Mr. Nice Guy." You're still rescuing her.
I see what you guys are saying and you're right...I did rescue her some with this. Nut, I have talked to an attorney and I have been documenting everything that has gone on. I've been divorced before (10 years ago) and learned a lot of what to do and not do during that. For about the past two weeks she has not been sleeping away at night and has taken a more active roll in the care of D3 and even changed her work schedule so she could have more time with her. Last Sunday she suggested we spend the day with D3 and we did and had a great time. First time she has done that in 3 to 4 months. All of this has made me step back and re-evaluate this whole sitch some. The way she was acting before...never home, never spending time with D3, doing anything to move out, etc.... was like she was trying to cut herself out of the family as a whole and that was forcing me to go into protect D3 and myself and start working on D paperwork to do that. Now with her being home a lot, sleeping at home, spending good quality time with D3, being nicer to me in general and asking me out to lunch or cooking me dinner, not wanting to move out... has me wondering if she is having a change of heart about all of this but doesn't want to fully commit to it yet or wants to feel out if I'm receptive to it or something. Her whole attitude has definitely changed some. I am still pretty suspicious and cautious of it though and am going to approach all of this very slowly. As for the redecorating/remodeling....still on as planned. Actually gonna use the money she pays me each month to live there as my roommate to finance it all. ;-) I will re-read NMMNG....right now re-reading DR, then on to NMMNG, then on to NUTS again..... Keep it all fresh in my mind so it becomes second nature to live it.
I have a thought...I think you should have staved off this request of hers. She dropped it on you in counseling because she probably figured that you'd drag your feet about that if the counselor wasn't there.
Honestly, I don't like it, but there are plenty of people on here (desperate people?) that think you should avoid separation at all costs. I can't say they are wrong, but it will be very hard for you to escape your self-imposed limbo in this circumstance. I don't think I would have agreed, or if I did, I would have said, "for a month maybe, until you can find somewhere else to be". Now that you already committed to this, I'd start actually making this a roommate situation. Go out, come back when you want, get a life, and do whatever you would if you truly did have a roommate. Make sure that you both have completely split your finances. Make sure that you don't allow yourself to be in limbo. Start doing things to work on yourself and make your SINGLE life as fulfilling as possible. You are only in limbo if you allow yourself to be. Sure, your love life is on hold, but that doesn't mean everything else has to be.
You cannot be lonely if you like the person you're alone with. Dr. Wayne Dyer
Right now it is for 2 months until we check in again on the situation. At that point I could ask her to find her own place...that was part of the agreement. I am treating this as a roommate situation. Last night I went out with my friends and crashed at one of their places because I had had a few drinks. All I did was send W a text to let her know I was crashing there so she wouldn't worry about it which was also part of the agreement. That's it...didn't ask for permission to do it or anything. Unless something changes then she really is just a roommate to me. I'm not going to bend over backwards for her. We just went to lunch together again. She called me to ask if i would go. And we split the check. Just like i would do with any of my other friends. Actually was a pretty good lunch. We laughed and joked about stuff. Pretty light-hearted. I will continue to work on myself and enjoy the single life to an extent (not going to get involved with anyone as that's not what I'm about nor would it be fair to myself or the other person). I know what you are saying about avoiding separation at all costs. I know the statistics say that the chances of reconciliation are better if the WAS doesn't get their own place. I get that. Honestly it probably does influence my decision to some small degree. One thing I do know is that even though W may have pulled a little bit of a fast one on me by how she brought this up and may think she has the power in this...she doesn't have it all. I control my life, my feelings, my destiny, my future. I can at any time decide this agreement doesn't work and ask to end it. I can at any time drop the rope and move on to a life without her. I have that power and know I do. I choose not to use it right now because i still believe that my marriage may have a chance to be saved. If I come to the conclusion that it can't be or that I don't want to be married to this person then at that time I will use the power I have to end it.
So today has been a pretty ok day. Took D3 to W's culinary school graduation. It was pretty boring for D3 but as far as graduations go it was short and kinda cool. Afterwards W went out to celebrate with her school friends and D3 and I went to do some shopping and then came home to hang out. W seemed genuinely happy that we came to see her graduation even though she told me multiple times that we didn't need to. I told her that it was important to her and that made it important for D3 and me and we wouldn't miss it. Guess that's my mini update for today. Hope all is well with everyone.
I just posted to mrniceguy and thought you might want to peek at it. SOME or none of it may apply. I don't know your sitch that well. But you may find something in there useful. J-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Wow, been awhile since I've posted. Things with work have been pretty crazy the last couple of weeks. Unrealistic deadlines, little to no management support, geographically dispersed teams, the usual. I feel like my life the last two weeks has just been a constant of work, gym, spending time with D3. So glad for a 3 day weekend to unwind and just relax some. I did manage to get out with friends a couple of times but didn't do too much other than hang out to talk since I was drained. Going to try to go play some volleyball this weekend since it should be nice and I've been itching to play. Things with W are still in I guess the same place. We are still living in the same house but in separate rooms like roommates. It was kinda weird the first week but seems to be getting better. We don't see or talk to each other much as I am giving her all the space she needs and wait for her to initiate anything unless it concerns D3. We did talk a little a couple of days ago and she brought up the R and said she was thinking about seeing the mediator and starting the divorce process. Kinda a weird conversation actually. She started off with that. I asked why the sudden push for that and she said that she doesn't know what she wants and that she wants to love me but the more she wants it the more she pulls away from it. I told her if she wanted to start the process then I wouldn't stand in her way. We could go anytime and that I was willing to do a 50/50 custody split with D3 and I would pay her so much $$$ for 2 years (half of the time we've been married...that's what she would be entitled to). So she sat there for awhile and then started tearing up and said...don't you think that's moving fast. I really had no response for that so i just let it go. Since then she hasn't brought it up nor talked about it. Yesterday she was supposed to have D3 and tonight I was. She sent me a text last night about 30 mins before she was supposed to come home and asked if I would hate her if she wanted to stay out. I said hate is such a strong word and told her I had plans and asked if she was asking me to change them so she could go out. She responded with maybe. So I asked back....well, do you or don't you. She said yes so I called up a friend of mine who I was going to go watch the Laker game with and asked if we could hang out tonight. He said it would be better for him if we moved it and it would actually be better for me too since I needed to get some work done so we moved it to tonight. I sent W a text back saying that I had moved my plans to tonight and it was all good. She replied back with thanks and you know you kinda rock. I just sent one back saying I know and have a good night. That about covers the sitch for now. Tonight should be fun because I don't have to worry about getting up for work tomorrow so I can let loose a little more. I wish I knew what the whole start a conversation with divorce and then when I don't try to stop it but provide feedback on what we could do I'm moving too fast thing is but I'm not going to dwell on that anymore and just keep doing what I'm doing, giving her space, and having fun. W starts her new job tomorrow so I'm sure some of that is stressing her out so that could be affecting her mood and thoughts some....who knows. Anyway, hope everyone has a great memorial day weekend.
Oh...25yr...I went and read what you wrote and get what you are saying. I would love for you to read back through my sitch and give me some of your opinions/advice.
Don't have time to do the whole thread review now and maybe won't for awhile. But THIS post of yours was a little revealing. She brings up stuff and you handled it pretty well. Normally I'd say veer off R talk and NEVER be the one to bring it up UNTIL IF AND WHEN YOU are truly ready to get a decision. Knowing you might need to back it up with action, etc. But you aren't there yet and you kind of called her "bluff" or her trial balloon or whatever.
Back off and let her see some "reality" and don't be the one to show it to her. Life will. She's probably rethinking. Who knows? I'm not in a position to know since I don't know your sitch but I do know that sometimes the guys here, often the UNsucessful ones, end up projecting their wishes or agendas onto other men and they don't help. Not saying you did that, or anyone is to you. But I am saying to watch for it. But I've seen a guy on this site tell other men to "man up" and stand up for themselves and "see the change and the respect and blah blah blah" and that guy is a total hypocrite. I don't know if he's helped anyone and for sure he's not taking his own advice. He's aggressive to the point of being violent, or he does the opposite and wallows in weakling behavior. Very odd but you'd never know from his posts. (I have not seen his posts on your thread, but haven't looked hard either. So I'm not pointing any specific fingers, okay?) Just making an observation that may be needed. Similar stories from jilted LBSers who think ALL WAS's are "Cheaters" and "once a cheater, always a cheater" and since I know some "cheaters" who NEVER did it again, I don't like blanket rules being projected onto other people....
I digress.
Your interaction was a good one. Let her own her choices. I assume your legal and financial analysis was based on solid advice from a professional, correct? Oh, and be careful not to be the "parent" to her. She'll feel cornered or forced into defending her choices rather than examining them. I also just read a book called "Blue Like Jazz" and it's a spiritual book. Struck me in many ways.
A point I got from it is this. (My words and my take on it of course...) We sometimes want the WAS to "go to Church" or find God, or "remember their values/morals" and what we are really doing is manipulating religion for our own goals. That's misusing religion. Instead, if you are a man of faith, let your faith strengthen and enrich your life. Let it show in a positive way that shows to others without aiming it at W...it's about YOUR R with God. Let the LOVE of God show and the forgiveness. It's key to reconciling. And as my signature says, "Forgiveness is the way out of hell".
Sometimes I wonder if any WAS ever came home, and stayed, out of guilt. I doubt it. And isn't it more likely to happen if the WAS feels they'll be forgiven or welcomed, rather than risking that the A or "sin" they committed will be held over their heads the rest of their lives? Kind of like how my db coach said to "Keep the Road Home Paved and Smooth", so don't make it any harder to return than it already would be. If your w thought you were controlling (yes I know that men say "they all say that" but that does not mean it isn't true) then now is NOT the time for you to issue your "rules". I find it amazing that a man (or any LBSer) would tell a WAW what SHE has to do to work on the M for HIM to take her back --when she is walking away!! Amazing...and stupid, and prideful and arrogant and sooooo NOT effective!! It's exactly what she'd need to validate her choice to leave!!
Finally, reconciling presents a risk for both parties. Sometimes the LBSers forget that. They think that if there is an A, first off they get to be victims and pretend they played NO role in the demise of their M. AND they forget that even though they are risking their hearts again, b/c maybe the WAS will cheat again, the WAS returning is risking a lot too. Maybe the A IS a real love they are rejecting in favor or a M with someone who does not truly love them well. OR maybe they'll be punished the rest of their lives. Or maybe the LBSer will go back to the ways of before that made the WAS feel "entitled" to cheat or pushed into the arms of OP...
Both sides have to let go of the past to move forward successfully...just some thoughts. But to get to that point, the WAS has to believe SOMETHING would be different, something key would be better. RIght or wrong (and do you want to be "right" or happy? b/c that's a big question to seriously consider), but right or wrong, the WAS feels justified in leaving and won't return for more of the same. So the LBSer has to prove that THEY are different now and that M to THEM would be better and IF the WAS wants back in, SOMEDAY, and only then can an LBSer start talking about "conditions"....I was sooo turned off what Mrniceguy said to his wife I could not believe the "manly" response he got from others. Neither could she, sadly. Um, guess what I'm saying is until I know more of your sitch I cannot be specific. I saw you among others, posting to MNG and shook my head. So, that's why I posted to you. I mean, if what you are doing is working, great. But make darn sure you define "Working" carefully. I have seen men here post on and on about morals and rules and what THEIR expectations are of their WAWs, and their wives have left them!! Hello?? Why don't they Look in the mirror, I say to myself.
Have you ever read the CS Lewis book "The Great Divorce"? (It is not about divorce but R's with God and behavior, etc.) It's written like a novel and has different characters arguing their way into heaven, etc. Interesting. One man keeps on and on about how "right" he was with his wife and how unfair it was that she got into heaven when HE was "such a righteous man" and she was so overly friendly with "just anyone" (meaning she was kind and nonjudgemental, etc) and there are times I feel I hear that man on this site....hey, I would tell you if you sounded like him and maybe you do on your thread, but I'm not saying that now. Just making some general observations. Food for thought. Anyhow, as i said, I DIGRESS and must now stop and go... Have a great weekend. Seriously, your weekend is probably going to be an interesting one. Listen to her if she brings up R talk and the way you handled the phone requests for switching nights was WELL DONE....polite, NO ANGER but requiring an "adult" request of some specificity from her. Good job.
J-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
25yr....I have not read that book but it does sound like an interesting read. Right now I'm reading "Not Just Friends" but after that I may have to check it out. I like hearing your take on all of this and really like to hear all sides and all opinions because it gives me different insights that I may not have considered and I like to get as much information as possible. I know every week I talk to my IC it's amazing how he can spin things that have happened into a different light that I would have never thought about. Just to give you a brief synopsis on my sitch....W dropped the bomb at the beginning of the year with the ILYBNILWY and said she needed space to figure things out. I of course lost it....typical. We went to a couple of MC sessions together and she would close up in them and not really say anything and finally stopped going. I still see the counselor as my IC and he told me about DR and this site. About a month after the bomb W starts seeing a guy she had worked with (actually was her boss when they worked together). Said she never meant for it to happen it just did. He is going through his own divorce. That's over now. She says she isn't seeing anyone else but I don't really know...I have to choose to trust and believe her or not. Also, the IC says he thinks she is bipolar off of the times he talked to her and how her moods and reactions go...but he couldn't be sure unless he specifically worked with her more...just wanted to make me aware of it as a possibility. W never told me what was wrong in the marriage until recently although by the time she did I had figured it out mostly. She felt smothered by the marriage as after we had D3 I became totally co-dependent on her (I have a tendancy to become "Mr. Nice Guy" anyway and put my needs aside for the most part in a relationship...something I have recently realized). I am working on this with the IC and he has suggested that I make my feelings more known to W as that is a 180 for me and will help me to work on myself. Not be mean about it, accusatory, or trying to make her see things my way....but just to tell her how i feel about things sometimes.
So that's like the cliff notes version of things. I'm giving her all the space in the world right now and will see how things go. Went out last night and had a great time with my friends. When W came home so I could leave she looked at me and was like...you look nice! I was wearing jeans and a t-shirt. I said thanks and then she commented that I look so skinny now and I should eat something. I asked her if she meant i looked too skinny...like not healthy or something and she was like no...you look good. I'm jealous. So I said thanks and started to leave. She asked if I was coming back home afterwards or staying out and started to ask where I was going and then stopped and said that it was none of her business. I just laughed and said that if she wanted to know she could ask as I don't mind. Told her that I was going out with friends to watch the Cleveland/Orlando game and then we would probably end up shooting pool and having a few beers. Which we did. Sent her a text around 1am saying that I was at my friends house and was going to crash there since I had drank too much to safely drive home. Didn't hear anything back from her. Came home this morning and she looked kinda bummed but I didn't ask about it and just went about playing with D3 and just laughing and smiling which is so easy with D3 since she is a trip. W asked me about some bills she needed to pay and I told her then she got ready and left for work. She said she would call me after work to see how things were going. That's my day. No talk of divorce or moving out or anything. Honestly, don't think I'll hear anything else about that for awhile.
Oh...and I did comment to MNG on his thread about my experiences with becoming a doormat to W during all of this and how that made me feel and how I couldn't do that. That it made me resentful because I was compromising my morals and beliefs too much and didn't feel good about myself for it. If i don't feel good about myself because of not standing up some for my feelings then I'm not going to be someone that W nor anyone else would ever want to be with. Plus it was affecting my attitude all the time even when I was with D3. Now i'm much happier around everyone and it shows. I can enjoy myself and not dwell on things because I'm not stuffing all my feelings down into the pit of my stomach and then sitting on them. It is a fine line to walk though and as my IC has said...you have to pick your battles. Let the small stuff go that really doesn't mean that much but for major things you have to say what you feel and just leave it at that. Does that make sense? If not i would love your opinion on it for some friendly advice and debate.
