What do you know about me, or my situation, beyond this current thread? You make an awful lot of assumptions. Considering that I'm "to the right" of 95% of the people on the forum, to the point where I got banned for saying so, this is pretty comical to be accused of "going soft" here.
Puppy
I've been following you since December. It's been an emotional rollercoaster and I'm suggesting some ideas to break the dynamic. Maybe I'm just wrong and if so I apologize. Just trying to put in some differing perspective. Sorry if I offended you.
And I'm sorry I said you were being a sissy. I was totally wrong.
By the way, the last couple posts about last night / this morning were very Alpha actions. I applaud you. And with that I'll get off your thread.
Just wanted to let you know that I am so happy for the communication that you and Mrs. Pup have exchanged. I think that she has given you a real gift of her insight and understanding where she is coming from. It is so much easier to have patience with our WS when we understand their perspective. Also, I gotta say as a LBS, I totally understand your wife. Even though it was my H's who walked out sometimes I get excited about being single and to think that I could be going on exciting dates now and just enjoying the single life - I met H when I was 16 so I've never really dated and been single. But of course, reality kicks in and then I realize that the only side is not all that its cracked up to be. So I hope you can put your hurt aside and understand her desire to know the other side of life. We know well that single people want to be married and married people want to be single so I think that just the case here. I hope God blesses you with patience that you can understand and validate her at times, with the knowing that its just one of her needs (and I totally know that you have needs that she has to meet as well). Good luck and best wishes. You make me proud.
I hear the cycle breaking all the way over in WI. Doesn't it feel good just to love...just plain love. We all have our needs, but when you just focus on loving because you want to, things DO start changing. Talking about your feelings and fears is at the heart of sharing love.
Comments on her letter: (you guys found a good communication tool here, keep using it if it works, especially for the hard stuff to say and hard stuff to express)
She needed to hear about your love for her. I'm glad you did that. She's right, it's easy to forget it when dealing with extremely hard events/reoccurances in a marriage.
She explained her fear even though it may be tough for you to hear. You can't work out anything that you don't know about. I know that fear she has. I felt that I didn't have ample time "finding myself" either, and I even went to college. I guess what I found out is that I think most everyone get to this place after some years in a marriage. People change. She is realizing things about herself now that she hadn't before. I believe even if she had gone to college, she would still have gotten to this place. She is a different person now than she was back then. She is older, she has learned things, she sees things with more mature eyes, the kids are getting older and all the focus doesn't have to be on them, she is having time to "see" herself, and she has had an affair. I think this is what people mean when they say "we grew apart". You can either confide in your H (like she is doing), share your fears, and grow together, or you can go off on your own in search of answers. I've wondered before if I would have "picked" my husband now if I were single. We are constantly changing and growing as people, if we tried to find someone that met those specific changing needs every time, we would have to find new partners often.
The counselor can help her sort through these things. It IS a pro marriage counselor, right? I'm no counselor, but I could guess that you could get to the heart of what she feels is missing, and work together on fixing it. I don't think she will find she needs to leave the one she loves to be content and happy. I went through a long spell of wondering if I will be happy, and what I found is it is not who I am with that makes me happy...for me, it is the little things now. When I get that feeling like she is still having, I plan something with my H that will satisfy it (it is usually "excitement" that is missing and that causes that feeling). Again, the counselor should help her.
As for what to tell the kids. That's fine what she says. I don't like the way she is leaving the back door open to leave, but I guess if she DOES end up giving up it would be best for the kids to know that is a possibility. Be prepared with answers to questions your kids may have. Maybe practice with your wife thinking of each child and what they may say. There's nothing wrong with telling them how YOU feel. Just because she has a way SHE wants to put it, doesn't mean that you may not have a slightly different feeling about it. Talk to her first about it, though. If my H said what she did, I would also want to add myself that I have learned that marriage is a lifelong commitment.....when I took the vows for better or for worse, in good times and in bad, I meant it. I put my life in God's hands. That's me, but I'm closer to my faith than ever these days.
Renewal of vows. She still thinks you may not work out so she won't do them yet. You don't want to do them if she feels that way. Better wait. From what I read, she is saying she is committed to WORKING on the marriage, not committed to the marriage.
Ok, you guys are off to a good start. You know what is going on in her head, she knows your fears and some of your needs, and you are both working on them. Keep this going, even when it gets to a bad spot ('cause it will), you keep loving her. Having a good marriage is hard work. Don't forget to watch that movie.
By they way: You said, "In any event, I'm going to try to initiate tonite and/or tomorrow, and am going to make sure to do it forcefully and playfully, and if I get rejected, it's going to be more of a "hey, your loss hotcheeks!" thing." - PERFECT! Now you got it!
OK, a couple thoughts. Why have a talk with the kids? Why not just show them with actions what's going on? I mean if they have ?s that's cool, but it doesn't seem like that will do anything for your kids expect maybe cause them extra stress. We're trying to work things out but it might not? Why not just show them that you're working on your M, being a good role model and all that? Besides your kids have been through the wringer a couple times already, just doesn't seem necessary to me.
I think a major # besides the sex issues, is that your W is looking at "something else", some other condition before she can be happy. I used to do that too, if I had a new house, I'd be happy, or if I lost 10 lbs. I'd be happy. But I don't think it really works like that. I've found myself just living in the moment and each day and trying to enjoy everything: showers, singing along with the car radio, being with friends and kids, etc. I think your W needs to work on both of those issues. You can work on whatever she feels the need to work on: independence or growth or whatever in a M or out.
Why burden the kids and make them worry? Plus, I guess I just don't get this self-absorbed attitude that I see so much of with these WAS's. For f*ck's sake, why do they feel the need to be so selfish as to try to recreate what they think they "missed out on?" Gee.....what if we all left our significant others to go back in time to "find ourselves?"
Nobody's life experiences are completely in line with what we thought they would be. And that's because WE MADE CHOICES!! Just because we think they cause some sort of "emptiness" now does not mean we are automatically entitled to a do-over.
Why is it so wrong to just grow the f up and do the right thing by your spouse and children? I would hazard a guess that none of us had the perfect childhood. So why be a prisoner of it? Why visit those issues onto your loving H or W when it's not their fault?
Sorry, I am just stunned by all the navel-gazing and years wasted by self-indulgent WAS's.
I hope you'll reconsider, Frank. If we both agreed on everything, ONE of us wouldn't need to be here. I could use all the different perspectives I can get.
OK, a couple thoughts. Why have a talk with the kids? Why not just show them with actions what's going on? I mean if they have ?s that's cool, but it doesn't seem like that will do anything for your kids expect maybe cause them extra stress.
You are a smart and intuitive woman, Karen. That's EXACTLY what we decided to do. No "family meeting" today, just a real nice dinner with all four the kids. Our daughters came over, really pitched in and helped, and it was nice watching the two girls just sitting at the kitchen table, chatting, enjoying BEING SISTERS without their boyfriends around. I made some teriyaki-marinated london broil on the grill, carmelized sweet onions (w/a little sugar and some soy sauce), sauteed mushroom (in butter and a little red wine), and grilled fresh shrimp (basted in butter, fresh garlic and a little lemon juice, plus salt and pepper). Baked red potatoes, fresh broccoli and some good wine and sweet tea rounded it out, and we just had a really nice dinner with the family.
D22 asked me if she could mooch "a couple of dollars" for some lottery tickets, and I folded a twenty inside the two $1s and winked at her, and she really appreciated it. She's always broke, but NEVER misses a car payment or a utility payment to me, so I just felt like doing it.
Anyway, Karen, we decided just that. My wife and I talked and we decided that we're tired of the dramatic "proclamations," and decided to just DO it -- work at it, one day at a time. If we'd been fighting or something in front of the boys, or one of us had found the need to sleep away from the house one night or something, it'd be one thing, but they really haven't been exposed to anything like that, as we've really gotten along great. So we thought this was for the best.
Oh, and spending the afternoon watching the fetching & fit Mrs. Puppy try on bikinis was NOT hard duty today, either. O . . . M . . . G . . .
Why burden the kids and make them worry? Plus, I guess I just don't get this self-absorbed attitude that I see so much of with these WAS's. For f*ck's sake, why do they feel the need to be so selfish as to try to recreate what they think they "missed out on?" Gee.....what if we all left our significant others to go back in time to "find ourselves?"
Nobody's life experiences are completely in line with what we thought they would be. And that's because WE MADE CHOICES!! Just because we think they cause some sort of "emptiness" now does not mean we are automatically entitled to a do-over.
Why is it so wrong to just grow the f up and do the right thing by your spouse and children? I would hazard a guess that none of us had the perfect childhood. So why be a prisoner of it? Why visit those issues onto your loving H or W when it's not their fault?
Sorry, I am just stunned by all the navel-gazing and years wasted by self-indulgent WAS's.
C'mon, Kimmie Lee, why don't you tell us how you REALLY feel??
