song....perhaps I have misinterpreted somethings...and yes... I know some of my posts come across as negative..but they really aren't. I just try and get you to think and course correct....that is all...and not even saying that I am an expert here. I do not claim to be a pHd. in psych.
Originally Posted By: Virgil, Greek poet
"Trust one who has gone through it."
"Believe one who has proved it. Believe an expert."
You must be careful about walking the detachment path and weaving in and out of nondetachment....and false hope messages. Many people here would say: -oh...wow....definitely go to Mother's Day....be nice and show her how much you love her and keep the door open for her to return
Other's may see it differently: -it sounds like she ignored you...the boys see this....they see you tolerating the disrespectful treatment...she dishes it out and you permit it....messages of false hope that you two will be fine
This is just my opinion...but I think that it would have been better to do the cards, flowers thing, encouraged the boys to have a good time with their mom...etc....but defined a border and NOT be treated as you were in front of your boys.
Would "boys...I love your mother...we are going through difficult times...but it's best that you spend time with her today alone". Is this courage, defining the way you want to be treated? Is it saying 'I love you but I will not be treated like a doormat'
or
Sit at the table, be ignored..not talked to ..and let the boys see how it is OK for a wife to treat her husband this way? Was this wimpy wuss behavior? Was it a good example for your boys to see...dad left in a corner? Was the need to go pursuit? Was it fear of being alone? Neediness?
Just saying....think. Is your behavior drawing her closer to you or pushing her away????
Think.
FIB
Me 55; XW 47; 2 kids (S13, D11) Bomb 05/19/06 Original thread http://tinyurl.com/yg2ou2t Last anniversary 04/25/10, Divorced 5/12/10 Status: Loving father of 2 beautiful children;
I know where you are in this process because I was there. A very humbling experience for sure. It's hard to overcome those wussie feelings especially when one of the complaints from ex was that I wasn't sensitive enough. Well hell no, I'm not as sensitive as some, but so what? Is that a bad thing? I cried once fer gawd sakes! I think I sang a Berry Manilow song one time to when I was drunk.
Nothing wrong with hope unless it's not tempered with realistic expectation. That's what burns so many here. They get frustrated and usually end up sabotaging themselves. I see it all the time. This isn't a science with a cause and effect scenario. Let it play out on it's own terms. Follow the DB principals but allow yourself some wiggle room. Not every situation is the same even if it sounds the same. And boy, doesn't it sound like the same story on here. You can't control some things no matter what behavior you display towards W.
Your choice, but those love songs and looking for signs isn't going to deliver your M. Not to presume God's plan for anyone, but I believe he test us sometimes. In my case, he definitely didn't give me any answers or signs but I think I learned allot of things just the same. I hope it was his will for me to learn. Totally different perspective on life, love, and priorities since going through this experience.
It isn't a total loss even if your M doesn't survive. In many respects, you gain new and positive influences in your life. It's true where doors close, new ones open. I use to think that was some corny line to make myself feel better, but I absolutely believe in it now. Keep the faith in yourself and you won't go wrong no matter how things end up.
"It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." -Mark Twain
Thanks for your insight. I hear what you are saying, really I do. And even though my posts may not illustrate it, I am detaching and dealing with the reality of what's happening. Just the fact that I can listen to music again is one step. I'm also less distraught in general, and have gone several days without breaking down and crying, which is a big step for me.
I haven't given up and won't give up - that is my promise to God - but I also will not be broken by this, and I will make it through whatever happens.
Both posts above are excellent. That is the key song. Detaching and letting go is NOT giving up and it is NOT quitting. You are removing yourself from the pain of the moment and also allowing yourself to regroup..rethink....grow and 'return to fight another day' with a better, faster , stronger song.
Once you realize and accept that you are trying to nudge the Queen Mary 2 out of harbor with a radio controlled boat, you will completely let go and drop the rope. Even tho' I was unable to reconcile my marriage (there were darker issues on her half that were, IMO, fatal from the get go), I saw the most positive changes from her after I filed and starting doing things with the kids without her. Six months after filing, my W told me that she thought she didn't want a divorce.
I won't tell you what to do, but, if you continue to put yourself into situations where your W treats you like '$hil', your boys are going to be hurt by this. IMO...in your own words...you should let her know that you are available but moving on and start to live your life independently.
The best example I saw of this was a man who was entering a limbo phase with his wife for the second time in his life. He recognized it early and wrote her a letter:
Quote:
I realize that we have some difficulties in our relationship and I am desirous to work on these with you because I love you. If you return to the marriage I promise that I will give 100% of my energy to work on this with you and stay committed and dedicated to our marriage forever. If you cannot do this, I will not let my spirit be destroyed by etc.
Again...not saying to file, etc. I am just saying that...if you are going to stand....you need to pull back and let go and let G-d and her inner self bring her back. Anything less is pursuit.
FIB
Me 55; XW 47; 2 kids (S13, D11) Bomb 05/19/06 Original thread http://tinyurl.com/yg2ou2t Last anniversary 04/25/10, Divorced 5/12/10 Status: Loving father of 2 beautiful children;
Thank you for your continued support and guidance FIB, I truly value your judgement. I've been reading FaithfulH's sit from the beginning, and you have some great posts on his saga.
Quote:
You are removing yourself from the pain of the moment and also allowing yourself to regroup..rethink....grow and 'return to fight another day' with a better, faster , stronger song.
Words to live by!
This quote is great.
Quote:
I realize that we have some difficulties in our relationship and I am desirous to work on these with you because I love you. If you return to the marriage I promise that I will give 100% of my energy to work on this with you and stay committed and dedicated to our marriage forever. If you cannot do this, I will not let my spirit be destroyed by etc.
I have been contemplating writing my W a letter in a similar vein, and have been struggling for the right timing and words. I would like to ask her the following.
Quote:
W,
Before you take any steps toward a permanent solution to what may be a temporary problem, I would ask that you consider participating in this workshop with me.
I really believe that we owe it to each other, and to S13 and S12, to try and see if we can work through our issues, as a divorce will have life long impact and repercussions on all of our lives. At the very least, we would know that we exhausted every opportunity to make it work, and could move forward without doubt of whether we should have tried something to help.
I would appreciate a response, even if only to let me know that you read this and considered it.
I know it is pursuit, and that's what I am having trouble with. How do I ask her for one weekend (which may mean she has a change of heart, or may mean that I have a change of heart, I've read of it going both ways), without it coming across as pursuing? Is there a way, or do I need to wait and have that as a last card to play, should she end up filing?
The next retro is the weekend of Sept 11, so I would need to ask her in the next couple of months. If anyone could weigh in on the best approach and timing, I would be most grateful.
I tried to get my W to go to Retrouvaille. Got close but didn't make it. They have to want to go...it will come across as pursuit.
U can try with the understanding that you have nothing to lose and risk 'a backslide'...which..is not a bad risk if you know what I mean. Personally, I would want to see SOME interest on her behalf...so....not really sure if you should. Since you don't want to file, may want to consider it an LRT in the sense that after this....you just let go and pray and move forward.
FIB
Me 55; XW 47; 2 kids (S13, D11) Bomb 05/19/06 Original thread http://tinyurl.com/yg2ou2t Last anniversary 04/25/10, Divorced 5/12/10 Status: Loving father of 2 beautiful children;
I know it's risky, and I have been struggling with the decision to ask for it, and if so, when and how. I guess I'm still looking for an opening or a sign (I know, I know) that she would consider it.
FIB, how did you approach it?
Quote:
let go and pray and move forward
That is what I am doing, regardless of whether Retro ever happens for us. If it does, I need to go into it with no expectations, and just be in the moment.
Dear Song, I feel that I say about the same thing over and over, but yet I feel impressed to try one more time to tell you that you are still trying to fix this situation and you still have not given it over to God. Please don't be angry about that statement b/c based on what you have said to me in the past, I don't think you understand what I am talking about. It is not you being a good H and father. It is not praying to God about the stitch. It is you letting go of your wife and the marriage. It is you stopping all this thinking of ways to get her to go with you to workshops or get away for a weekend or whatever you think of next. Can't you see that you are the one that is still trying to fix what is broken? You must use "faith", Song.
You and I have talked a lot about God. If you "know" God and talk to God and have a little knowledge about what the Bible says, then you have to know that in a Christian's life there will be a time to use faith. Faith is letting go and depending totally upon God to take care of what needs taken care of. It is getting out of God's way and allowing Him to do His work. Sweetie, you just are not doing that. I really believe as long as Song tries to fix things that God is going to stand back and you will not see the results that you hope to see. Why? B/c God wants you to grow spiritually here and learn how to apply your faith. You say you "believe" in Him, but do you really? I'm not trying to see how sarcastic I can sound, but I'm trying to get you to "see", Song. If you truly believe what God says, then you have to prove it by giving Him the time and space to do His work. Time and space......sound familiar?
You said you had started listening to music. I read some lyrics and I wondered if that was what you needed to be listening to. You need to hear uplifting music. We all have our own personal taste in music and maybe I just wasn't "getting it". I do think that music affects our moods and spirit, so you need to hear something inspiring for you....not that gets you more depressed. Those are my words.....and not taken from anything you said.
As far as "signs" from God........I started to make some comments about that, but I saw how you reacted to another poster and the comments, so I stayed out of it. I realize that is a touchy subject for you. But, let me say this much......the Bible teaches us that "signs from God" is not for the mature Christian. Why? B/c the mature Christian will use faith, and signs is not faith. Faith cannot be seen or smelled or heard or even felt. Faith is just "knowing" and trusting and depending on what God has said in His Word.
Now, about you moving back in the home on Father's Day. I see the.......oh what's the word I am looking for here? Can't spell it! Anyway, I know that you have chosen Father's Day for a reason. AGAIN, SONG CHOSE THIS ACTION.....not God, but Song. So, have you discussed this with your wife, or were you planning to just show up with your things that Sunday and proceed to move in? That is not right, sweetie. Maybe I missed where you said you had discussed it with her, but by the way she has been treating you, I don't think she will be receptive to that one bit. I know all your arguments about standing for your M and the reasons behind your decisions. I am not disagreeing with "why" to stand for your M. I am saying that you are not going about it the right way and I am very concerned that you will continue to "push" and pursue until you will ruin everything and there will be no healing or reuniting of the M. I know that is not what you want to happen.
Therefore, I am pleading once more that you will back away.....drop that rope and give it all over to God. Please exercise your faith in Him and trust Him to do what is best. I think you are afaid to do that, Song. You are afaid that it will not turn out like you want it to.....if you leave it up to God. That is why you are constantly interfering with God's work and trying to make things happen the way you want it to. I can understand that. I have been in those situations myself. It can be scary. It will be scary until you can come to terms with the faith issue and finally hand it over to the One Who has the power. You have no power, Song. Right? You have no power outside of God. Let Him work. I can promise you this.....He will do nothing as long as you are trying to do it. Please don't prove me right. Show us the faith. Show God you do believe in Him for Who He is!
Love, Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I am with Sandi2. Although I would add one thing. Do you have enough trust and faith in God to hand your W over to him and let him do the work while you step out of it? I think that is the hardest thing for any of us to do. But that is where your real faith and trust comes in. You know that you can't fix it. You know that the more you try, the more you kill things.
Look at it this way, the more you try, the more you interefere with what God's plan may be. At some point you have to walk away and entrust God to do what is best for you and her.
Song, I know you have read what others have posted to me. And I have been unwilling to let go. And do you see any change in my situation? No.
But I think I am starting to finally hit that point where I am letting it go. I have my own place now. And I cannot fix this. By pursuing, I am interferring with God fixing it to. And keep in mind that God is not going to stand in the way of free will. He can do things all around her. But its up to her to choose to see those things as leading her to where she should be back working on things with you.
But you my friend, are not going to convince her to change her mind if she has already made her decision by continually pursuing her.
Let it go. Walk away. Let God handle it. And that means you WALKING AWAY.
I should be a prime example to you of what does not work.
Check Jaguilar's thread. He is doing excellent. His W may not come back either. But she is noticing quite a bit his changes. And things could change for him because of that. She is taking notice that he is leaving her alone and doing things for himself.
You can do this. Don't write the letter. Go dark and become interesting to her by having your own life. Let her see it for herself. Don't try and show her. Let her figure it out. I'm not saying to hide it either. Just don't put it in front of her.
If anything is going to work, that will. And if it doesn't, you still have to wake up every day and live life. How do you want to live life? In misery or happiness? Only you can decide that for yourself. People here can tell you how to do it. But only you can choose to do it.
Kevin
Me 36, W 37 M: 08/02/97 D13, D9 1st Bomb 02/08 Reconciled 04/08 2nd Bomb: 09/08 W filed for D 02/04/09 Separated 03/09 D dismissed 06/09/09 Still separated...
Now I am all confused again. I hadn't planned on just moving back unannounced, but rather discussing it with her next week and saying "I'm really not comfortable with the current living situation, and as the kids school year is up on June 22, I would like to plan on moving back to the home then as it won't be affecting their schoolwork. I could see it working out 3 ways. 1) We go back to the original setup where I'm in the home, and you are in the apartment, and the kids shuffle back and forth. 2) We make a real concerted effort to try and work on cohabitation, and see if that can lead to a stronger relationship with us. 3) We spend the summer fixing up the house to get it on the market to sell, and each look for places of our own, as neither of us can carry the house on our own."
Does it sound like I am trying to force things? I guess it does. Is there another way to go about this? I know you say "Let go, Let GOD", and that is what I'm trying to do, but does that really mean just do nothing and wait to see what W does, and then do more nothing. How do you know when you have fully let go - does that mean you just don't care about the outcome, or that you've just stopped trying to do anything... let the chips fall where they may? What if going to Retrovaille may be what God wants to happen, and He is leading me to invite her? How else would she know about it and end up there?
I'm off to Church now, but will be back with more later - feedback, advice, 2x4's always welcome.
