When H came home, he was still giving me the silent treatment, 24 hours later! At that point, I was so mad, I just left and didn't say much. I went to my meeting (for my very part time job) and he watched the kids. When I got home, he was over it and calling my babe and hon. After I ate and changed, I went in and sat down, pretty unsure of what was going to happen. He turned the TV off and said we should work this thing out. Finally ready to talk!
So we talked. I did my very best to focus on how much I love him and want to be with him, while still saying that we have issues to work through. He said that that is what makes him so upset, cause he is happy with things the way they are and I am not. He also talked about how incredibly stressed he is at work, and feeling completely overwhelmed. I expressed my feelings of being not that important to him and the lack of intimacy in general. I can't remember all the details of the conversation, but he generally agreed to try to be more present and said that he loves me and never wants me to feel rejected or alone. When we got this far, I didn't want to push too much, so I didn't talk about counseling. It is my nature to pull out some paper and a pen and write down specifics, so every one knows exactly where we are going, but it didn't seem like I was gonna get there without that pushing too far. While there were some tears, I also found a couple opportunities to crack a joke, and we both laughed a few times. I don't know who wrote that, but thank you! That really helped!
Interesting note...I left my copy of SSM sitting out, and it is not there now. I don't know if he read it or just put it away somewhere. I hope he did look at it...
When we went to bed, he initiated a snuggle, but a real one with both arms and actual contact and a few real kisses. However, he talked more about the kids than us. He talked about each one, and was telling me how beautiful our D is and how we are gonna have to really watch out for her (all true). I asked him why it was so easy for him to say she is beautiful, but never me. He said he figured that was just a given, especially since she looks just like me. I told him no it's not a given that I need to hear that, and often. He said of course you're beautiful, I don't marry ugly people.
So, at least we are talking. I don't know that we have really gotten everything out there, but hopefully we are started on the road. My fear is that this is just another conversation that will result in nothing. The good news is, I am not quite so miserable today and can focus on GAL and being happy.
This morning he was making lots of plans with me and the kids for things to do for the weekend. Depending on the wind, we will either be flying kites or shooting off model rockets and having a picnic. Friday is our 5th anniversay, and we'll be going out for pizza with the kids. So that's where we are now.
Very well done, indeed, last night -- you should be proud of how well you handled the discussion. Just remember that you have embarked on a -process- that will take months, if not more, to navigate (and that's -after- you get your H on board at fixing the problem). There will generally be no single discussion that causes all of the light-bulbs to go off, or all of the issues to be discussed or much less resolved. Each successful R talk will perhaps produce one more sliver of illumination, one more hint at the direction that you both need to move in, IF you're lucky. You'll have to repeat yourself often, face the same objections over and over again --> but with understanding, patience, and perseverance your points will eventually sink in.
Your husband sounds like he has fallen into a very typical man-trap of defining himself, identifying himself through his career -- and not much more. I used to do the same thing. And when confronted about the lack of a satisfying -relationship- with your wife, you tends to point to the job: "but this is ME, this is what I do, and I work hard for the benefit of the FAMILY." This is a hard mode to get out of, and you expect your wife to be accepting and supportive of all the exhausting hours and 'sacrifices' that you make for the family (and get defensive when she doesn't). For my own part, it took a very long, reflective look at myself and the life I was leading before I finally understood that my wife didn't want a husband who was always working, always stressed, and always exhausted, regardless of how much money I made. She'd rather have less money, and -more husband-. And the upside was, that --> I <-- would have a much less stressful and much more satisfying life too.
You won't be able to change the fact that most men define themslves through their career, any more than you can change tha fact that most women define themselvs thorugh their relationships. However, you -can- work to convince him that a more BALANCED life will be better not just for you, but also for HIM and the rest of the family.
Originally Posted By: mamalala
I asked him why it was so easy for him to say she is beautiful, but never me. He said he figured that was just a given, especially since she looks just like me. I told him no it's not a given that I need to hear that, and often. He said of course you're beautiful, I don't marry ugly people.
This is another difference between the sexes that is biting you in the behind. Men don't understand the importance of affirmation to women. We tend to think that if we told you "I love you" last year, you should just assume that we still feel that way until further notice. And if we told you that you were beautiful on your wedding day, then case closed -- you're beautiful, no further discussion necessary. Yeah....I know. Wrong answer to both.
The man (and perhaps you) needs to educate himself on how dramatically different men and women are when it comes to love, sex, and relationships.
I know you're getting a load of book recommendations (most of us old-timers have a shelf or two of relationship and sex books), but here are two more for you:
Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus by John Gray
Despite his several attempts to repackage his basic material, this 'old' (1985) original presentatin is still, to me, John Gray's best book on the topic. I like everything except for his "Love Letters" approach to conflict resolution, which is a bit 'old school' and not very effective. The chapters on how men and women feel loved in a relationship are a must read.
The 5 Sex Needs of Men & Women by Gary Rosberg, Barbara Rosberg, and Ginger Kolbaba.
The book is written specifically for Christian couples, but does the best job of explaining intimacy differences between the sexes and offering potential solutions in the area of Michele's Intimacy Dilemma of any book I've yet come across. If the religious theme / bits don't apply to you, ignore them -- it's worth the read anyway.
-- B.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
Again, Thank you so much for all your feedback, everybody.
So, I am sitting back a bit to see what he will do, but really working on GAL. I have been going to the gym this week, every other day or so, and my weight loss is just starting to show a bit. This morning I was getting all my stuff ready to go and he asked what S and I were doing today, and I told him gym and a street festival that is happening afterwards. When I packed a little make up (which I usually don't do unless it's a special occasion), he asked, "you're bringing make up?" I just said, "yeah, I shower there so S is happy and supervised in childcare." He didn't say anything else.
I also asked him today about going with me to the counselor on Monday. I gave him the time and asked him if he thought he wanted to go with me. I said that if he did and the time wasn't good, I would need to know today so I could change it. He said he would check his schedule and let me know. He asked how much, and I told him, but said that I would split the cost with him. (Even though I am a SAHM, I have a tiny PT job, so I have a tiny paycheck.)
Today is our anniversary, and he has been very sweet (but he is almost always very sweet).
I can't buy that watching porn is anything like cheating, nor is it wrong to masturbate. What it may be is a way of evading important issues. But cheating is taking it a step too far.
Sharing porn is an act of intimacy - perhaps not the kind you were looking for, but perhaps a start. The key is "sharing".
BTW, I suspect that shaming someone about something they want to do will just force him to hide it more, and I am not sure how that's a good thing at all. Accepting it and embracing it may just lead to some surprising responses. One of the things I take from Ms. Davis' books is that if you change your behaviour, your spouses will change too. Shaming your husband hasn't worked so far, why is it going to work now?
divorced in 2003 Married in 12/2005 born 1948 wife born 1958 divorced in 2001
Bob - if you want to have a discussion about porn, please open a new post. I for one would be happy to discuss the pros and cons and how it applies to relationships. But I don't want to hijack mamalala's thread. Her issue is not with the porn so much as it is with the lack of sex...so lets not talk about something she is not even discussing.
Then why did you bring that topic back up on mama's thread, when she isn't even discussing it? Its confusing, Bob. You've got lots of interesting things to share and we all welcome you to do so, but why keep bringing it up here?
Good for you with the convo AND the GAL, hot mama.
Consider it a triumph that you were able to have an extended indepth conversation on this topic without rage from either party, AND cuddling afterward!!!
That may not sound like a big deal .... but it is.
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
I agree that porn and masturbating is not cheating, but when you have a wife that is ready to perish from lack of, well..., attention, it is selfish. I think it also sets up his sexuality to be some thing that is solo, rather than relational, so I ask him not to participate for those reasons. That's all. Thanks DQ!
Another lovely thing...he agreed to go one time to see the counselor. He says that if he is annoyed, he won't go back, but he'll give it one shot. YAY! I hope the counselor is not annoying...
Thanks for all the encouragement! You guys are awesome! I haven't felt this hopeful for a while...
