markhaving probs dropping the rope

[goingtofixME]

Gucci,

Still awaiting some insight into my sitch. I know...bug, bug, bug!

[pearlharbr]

For the record, I think there can be pitfalls to using dating as a tool: you lose the moral high ground (i.e. you may be cheating but I will remain faithful as long as we are married), you can hurt the OP you are dating if you decide to reconcile with WAS, you can decide you like the OP better and choose to leave the marriage even if WAS returns.

If you think you are ready, can handle it, and the pros outweigh the cons, then go for it. But if all of these conditions don't exist, there is another way to use jealousy as a tool without actually dating.

What I (and others) chose to do was to let xBF believe I was dating again. I didn't say I was dating and I would not have lied to him if he asked me point blank, but you can plant the idea in the WAS's mind and let them do with it what they will. Jealousy is jealousy, there doesn't need to be an actual person to inspire it.

And yes, it does work. I haven't discussed it specifically with xBF yet but I know that he thought I was dating and it really bothered him. I'm sure it contributed to him realizing what he was losing and change his mind.

[markhaving probs]

pearlharbr,

I was only thinking the same thing as you in regard to dating another woman. I totally agree with you that dating could result in hurting the OW and as I have pretty high morals I would hate to think I am using another woman as a tool to get to my wife.

I agree that as a person I want to keep the moral highground, I need to work out how to get my wife to believe I am seeing somebody else. Even if she or others do not actually see OW, would it make a difference to my wife, and how do I get my wife to assume I am seeing somebody?

[pearlharbr]

Gucci led me through the details of this, so I'll defer to him for the specifics for your sitch.

Here is what I did:

* Whenever xBF wanted to come over to "see the cats" I had to check my schedule to see if that time was good for me. I made all arrangements according to my schedule. I had other plans and ended up never at home when he came over.

* If it ever came up in conversation I was going out of town for the weekend. (I have been traveling a lot lately as part of GAL but even if I didn't have a big trip planned I drove to another city so I literally went out of town.)

* I bought myself flowers and had them in a vase on the kitchen table whenever he came over.

* I had a man's name and phone number written on a pad on the kitchen counter.

* For good measure, in case he went into our/my bedroom, I had some new lingerie lying out on top of my dresser. I also had a how-to-have-better-sex book on my nightstand. (Both these items were purchased to spice up R with xBF before I discovered his affair and kicked him out but I had never shown them to him.)

* Even when we he said he wanted to come back, I refused until he declared that he was finished with OW. Only then did I agree to speak with him on the phone or see him in person.

* When we first started seeing each other in person to talk I did not give him a weekend night for the first few weeks.

[kara]

Pretend to text someone on your phone with a mysterious smile.

Laugh as if remebering a delicious private joke.

Get an additional cell phone with a sexy new ring and ask someone to call it when she is at the house.

Start wearing new sexy cologne.

When she calls, say you'll get back to her as you are taking ano call.

Get new thong underwear. Okay I just threw that in there.

Those are for starter but I will give it some serious thought.

[kara]

You are reading from my playbook PearlHarbour.

[pearlharbr]

All of Kara's suggestions are great!

[markhaving probs]

Good suggestions though in my case at the moment I do not live in the marital home. I am moving back in June but my W is then moving out. I can only initiate some of these suggestions when I go back. She does not cross the front door when she comes to pick the children up, so it is difficult to 'plant' anything that might make her curious.

The reason is a few weeks ago my wife asked me NOT to bring any girls back to the house when I move back in. I do not know what she was playing at by making that comment - Was she trying to test me, was she assuming I was over her and was testing my response? I validated her comment but I did not make a definitive response, but in all honesty I would never do that anyway as respect to the marital home and my own moral beliefs. Who knows what the comment meant, but the bottom line is I have a pretty good idea she will look around the house when I return as she will return to the house now and again to check 'on the house'.

At this stage I will initiate the flowers, the book etc but I going to have to wait until June 20th to initiate any of these suggestions.

As we are living apart I need to apply some suggestions now while we are seperated.

I would like to think my current strategy of no contact initiated by me, no snooping, GAL, 180's are helping me slowly, but these strategies are not making any difference to my wife, or if they are she has not shown any wavering, change of mood or temperament though I can appreciate it is still early days and I must have more patience.

I will continue to have my lovely relationship with my children and I feel I am anticipating their needs better which is good for them and me.

[gucci loafer]

goingtofixme,

Here is what my thoughts are on your situation.

Has anyone heard that their spouse does not want to be responsible or a parent? My husband came into our relationship at a young age (23). I was already in my 30's with 3 children. He has said his major motivation for leaving is that he doesn't want to be a dad. He feels as if he is a bad role model. He also says he doesn't want to be responsible for anyone but himself.

Makes sense. He is young and they are not his real children.

Now mind you we also have the issue of him seeing me as a mother figure instead of as a wife. This is all due to nagging and me always being the responsible one ie. making sure the bills got paid and stuff got done. I told him when we first got together that I did not want to be his mother nor did I want to raise him and I meant it. I feel as if I was forced to be his mother when it was something I balked at repeatedly. I would tell him I did not want to have to remind him of things because it made me feel like I was trying to be his mother, yet he would forget so many things that it became a standing joke in our house.

Big mistake on your part. You ARE his mother now.

Why do you want to be with a man like this? Seriously.
From all indications this is not a man, but an undisciplined
boy with a huge lack of motivation. You have played right into this.

I ask again. Why are you not asking yourself the same things I am asking you. Why would a woman with three children want "another child" (and that is all he is) and why would she want to be with someone who doesn't want the responsibility of children. Not only that, but he doesn't want the responsibility of much anything. And yet, you still want him and still mothered him.

You SHOULD be telling yourself.. Thank God he is gone. I do NOT want a man that doesn't want to take responsibility and one who doesn't want to help raise my children. I want a man who wants to call my children "our" children. This is a self esteem issue on YOUR end. If you raise your self esteem then you WILL be saying these things to yourself.

Not only the above things are evident, but on top of that he is now having an affair with an ex FRIEND of yours. Yet, you still want him back? I don't see what he has to offer YOU.

What? A man who needs to be mothered? A man who has even told you he doesn't want responsibility? A man who you can't trust?
A man who doesn't want to raise YOUR children?

He says he doesn't want to be a dad and sadly he spent the last 7 months telling his problems to my best friend because he said he couldn't tell me.

BELIEVE HIM.

He said when he was leaving that he didn't want to be responsible for anyone else that if he didn't have a job, didn't want to wake up until 3pm, or didn't feel like eating it wouldn't affect anyone else.

The kind of men who say this are immature boys. This is what you have is an immature boy. He doesn't want to be with a "mom" You have become his mom.

Again. Why would you want to be with someone who is another child and you are the mom? I think this is as much about you and what you think of yourself as it is him. It is as clear as the nose on my face that he is telling you EXACTLY what you not only need to know, but have known for some time. He is not mature enough to be in a relationship with any woman, let alone a woman with three children.

After we talked on Friday, he said he would call me back that night to let me know what he was going to do with his dog. No call. Didn't call Saturday either.

Now. More proof of immaturity. The pattern is obvious. He needed to be called on this behavior by you a LONG TIME AGO. You ENABLED this behavior and tolerated it. Why? Why would you tolerate childish behavior from a love interest?

He finally left me a message on MSN telling me he didn't know what he was going to do, that he didn't want to take him to the shelter, and was seriously thinking about letting him out in the woods somewhere. He thinks he will have a better chance to make it out in the woods than at the shelter.

THINK about that. What kind of person does this? Letting any dog out in the woods like this is one thing, but a dog that has been in the family home? Does this not tell you anything?

Again.. Why? Why would your self esteem be overlooking the facts and truth? You SHOULD be thinking that YOU don't need or want HIM (or any other man that can't or won't pull his weight)

I'm just so confused. I know that I love this man. I have been reading and reading so many things trying to figure out what I should be doing.

You should be doing NOTHING. Absolutely nothing except letting him FEEL that you are RELIEVED that he is gone and that you should have kicked him to the curb sooner. THAT is what makes a person like this wake up. Doing everything for him has set a pattern of mother-son. You STILL want to do this for him. You STILL want to help him see his way back. It is the same pattern as always. NOTHING is your answer. You do NOTHING for him. Let him do it by himself or let him have the new gf do it for him. (which she may well be doing now)(he then has a "new mommy")

I was driving home the other day realizing how much I took for granted going home to my husband.

I don't agree with this. HE is the one that took you for granted.
Your self esteem is the issue here. (I am not saying you were perfect, but you are certainly not seeing this clearly because of the way you feel about yourself)

What does it mean when you ask a spouse to take away your hope and tell you that they want a divorce and they won't do it?

This is WHO he is. He never follows through on much of anything.
Why? Because you do it for him, or his parents, or his new gf. He finds those who will do things for him. He has it down to a science. In THIS case, I WOULD do it for him. I would slap him with quick divorce papers.

I told him that I would not be texting him, calling him, emailing, or contacting him and that if he needed anything he knew where I was and how to get in touch with me.

"Okay, I won't bother you son, but whenever you need anything please please call me so that I can help you out again. I will ber right here waiting and hoping for you"

I am going to do what I can for myself and my kids and move on. It's all I can do.

Work to change that thought to: "It what I WANT to do"

I used the excuse that I needed to take his mail to him in order to accomplish this. I was a giddy schoolgirl not sure what to say or how to act. Not at all like the person I am. I knocked on the door and he finally answered it.

(See Gucci wince) Not good. These types of things are not good.
I have had women do these to me in the past. It was ALWAYS a turnoff. I had one call me and tell me she was stopping over. I told her not to and that it wasn't a good idea. She stopped ANYWAY, after I told her not too.. (that relationship ended right then and there in my mind)

Being with me means being responsible, being a father to 3 children, and working on a relationship.

Correct. You should be telling yourself this in a positive and firm way. Like this... "I am going to be with a man who is responsible, who want to be a father to MY 3 children, and wants to be with me and is a partner with me"

I admit to not being as interested in his interests as I could be

Wonder why. I wonder why a woman with 3 children, that works full time, that takes care of everything at home because her husband won't... I wonder why she wouldn't be interested in being immature and having no responsibilities.... HHHMMM... Why would that be?

No it is not a deal breaker or I wouldn't still be here

I don't think he will come back UNTIL you let him believe it IS a deal breaker. The best way to get a child to grow up is to let him stand or fall on his own.

I think you need to get "tough" (not mean, but TOUGH)

He said he felt like I would get angry and not listen. Which to be honest toward the end of our relationship I did get angry and not listen. It's hard to feel sympathy for someone when you yourself are in so much pain, but still going and working 12 hour shifts and your spouse sits on his butt playing video games, playing on his computer, and rarely cleans, and has claimed for 3.5 years that he is trying, but being a daddy and cleaning a house is hard (children are 10, 14, and 16 and clean the house and feed themselves).

I ask again.. WHY are you wanting this person back? I believe this has more to do with your self esteem than anything. You are tolerating UNACCEPTABLE behavior. Not only that, but you WANT this person back. This confuses me.



My conclusions...

Stop pursuing him in any way, shape or form. This INCLUDES dropping his mail off to him (more mommy behavior) Let him call you and let him take care of his own mail... (and whatever else he has slacked on) Don't call him and tell him he has mail to pick up.

I think you need to work on and then ANSWER the question of why would I feel this way about someone who lack motivation, is immature, is having an affair, and has done basically nothing to enhance my life as a mother, a lover or a woman.

[goingtofixME]

OUCH! gucci! Certainly food for thought. I do have some questions and comments.

I fell in love with the man my husband said he wanted to be. I called him on his immaturity for years. Standard excuse was I'm young and this is all new. To be honest letting it go on for so many years wasn't smart on my part. I often wonder if I'm not more pissed at the fact that I should have kicked him out a long time ago than him doing exactly what I predicted would happen ages ago.

I do suffer from low self esteem. I am working on this. Believe it or not this is the thing I think has been the constant in my relationships. I have let in some really immature guys because I believe I can help them.

I have questioned myself many times in the last few weeks about why I would want this man back in my life. I have to be honest and say that he didn't bring much into our relationship at all. In fact, what he brought was a fantasy I had built up in my head and not the reality that I was living day to day.

I still have some of his things here at the house. I plan on boxing them and the rest of my marriage memories up. What do I do with his things?

Divorce? I feel that me going out and paying for the divorce is me enabling him again. I feel that he should have to do the growup thing and file for this. I do realize that he probably won't and have made plans to file myself in November if he doesn't man up.

I am working on me, gucci. I am working on my self worth. I am an educated woman and I am even furthering my education as we speak by attaining my BSN. I am overweight due to a condition, but I am finally losing weight (42.8lbs lost since the split). I am by no means an ugly woman.

Thanks for the help. I would appreciate any other words of advice you could muster in my case.