The Bumpy Road to Recovery #3

[LG nm12]

Aw shucks, Baggy. Thanks for saying that. I am so happy right now that I have an irresistable urge to help everyone else up the hill. I will keep fighting the fight!!

I think it is EXCELLENT that you had those discussions last night, don't you? Money and kids are two critical areas that can make or break a marriage. Because of your *productive* communication (that is such a good sign,) you can hash it out until there's nothing left to hash.

I love healthy hashing, myself.

: )

Lucky

[Bagheera]

Money and kids are two critical areas that can make or break a marriage. Because of your *productive* communication (that is such a good sign,) you can hash it out until there's nothing left to hash.

Only -partially- productive, really. Despite the mediation, by the end of the morning counseling session, we were still both upset, angry, and worn, and nothing was really resolved. It was a quiet drive back to our respective work places afterwards.

However, the damage -could- have been much worse. As it was, by that evening we were both recovered (mostly) and ready to reconnect, reassure and sooth outselves, and get back into the game as a team.

-- B.

[LG nm12]

Sounds like one of those situations where you're both so defeated you just end up hugging it out. The puzzle can be pulled out again on another rainy day, as long as the unresolved stuff isn't messing up this very day. GO TEAM BAGGY!

[DanceQueen]

I just wanted to point out that Lucky is all over the board in other sections, fighting divorce and waving banners and cheering on the troups! She is doing a fantastic job of educating DAM's everywhere, not just on SSM section....and she is giving voice and words to many of the women around here too, who maybe haven't had time to think through their feelings and don't know how to voice themselves.....

Cheers Lucky!

And Baggy...Your update makes me kinda sad because I hate those types of fights/talks...just thinking about having one makes me want to hide....but let me tell you something: You are LUCKY to get the lovely make up sex! Mr. DQ and I, although we do have the sex part figured out, he NEVER gives me any make up sex. It is usually a couple of days at least after any kind of fight before I get sex again...HE is the one who is too emotionally distraught to have sex after a fight, not me. Anyway, just pointing out that all of us have "luck" in different areas.

DQ

[bob48]

Just want to say I LOVE your description of sexual polarity, and I think it is right on the mark

[Bagheera]

Over on CharlieBrown's thread, Strong&Alive wrote the following:

The "vibe" I get from your posts is one of mentally "leaning" on your wife to "guarantee" that whenever you initiate (and no matter how), she will say yes. You want the "security" of a wife that will agree to sex once you intiate, and you counter-balance that with a Nice Guy subtext: "I will only initiate when I think you are in the mood".

You probably feel justified in this mindset, because there is a history of rejection and crappy excuses by her, which have probably hurt your ego. On the face of it that's a understandable and reasonable.

But such an approach IMO (and experience): (1) Undersells your own desire and ability as a man to get the sex you want. (2) Makes for piss-poor initations and crappy sex.

I didn't want to hijack over there, so brought it over here.

S&A, while I don't disagree with you on principle, I do disagree with you on approach. I think that you frequently try to take a utopian, Dieda's "Superior Man," stance to every issue, and don't acknowledge that there may be intermediate steps to get there, and that most of us mortal men can't go from 0 to 100 MPH in a manly flash.

As I talked about in this post, I enjoy blanket permission to 'take' my wife whenever I like, and I can report that this arrangement has helped BOTH myself and my wife in our own SSM recovery tremendously. As I explained before:

The permission that I have to take my wife sexually whenever I choose -- within common sense, and with a specific safe-word just for initiation in place -- was my wife's idea (based upon this Taken in Hand article that she found and shared with me). It fits in well with her sexually submissive nature, but more importantly, it was a very clever way for her to get us out of the old 'sexual rejection cycle' that plagued us for so long. She hated rejecting me as much as I hated the rejections. The pattern hurt both of us.

For the first several months of our recovery process, I laid the groundwork for a healthy sexual relationship. Her needs were being tended to -- she felt truly respected, cared for, and cherished by me for the first in years. We had repaired much of our close friendship and emotional connection. I had relearned how to court and romance my wife again. The problem of initiating sex remained, however, as I've described in my first thread here --> I wasn't being confident, seductive, and 'manly' enough to tip the scales and tumble her into bed.

So my wife turned the arrangement on its head. We talked about it (at length) and in a wonderful display of trust, she essentially turned complete control of our sex life over to me. I can literally 'take' her when I like --> no asking and therefore no rejections. HOWEVER, with such a privilege comes responsibility. I don't abuse the privilege, and her enjoyment remains just as important to me (if not more) as my own. I do my best to choose times that we BOTH can really get into it and and have fun. I'm not perfect, and do make the occasional misread of her responsiveness, but she's pretty forgiving and we both learn from it. So far, this new dynamic is working well for us.

More recently, we've made this arrangement part of our sexual D/s relationship: it is no longer her gift to me (placing her in the giving, dominant position), but something that I demand or expect from her (placing me in the taking, dominant position). She is my woman, my "possession" as it were, to do with sexually as I please, when I please. And she enjoys being "mine," being "possessed," and giving of herself at my demand. Granted, not every couple wants this sort of sexual D/s relationship, but my wife's initial extrapolation of MWD's "Just Do It!" principle worked very well. It got her past the "not tonight, not interested," mentality, and got me out of the "she's just going to say no anyway, she's not really interested," mentality.

Most SSM's involve -two- emotionally and relationally wounded people, and the recovery and healing process requires each to give each other a helping-hand and some forgiveness for not "getting it perfect" the first time something is tried. If one of my attempts at a "manly" approach falls a bit flat on occasion, my wife gives me the A for effort anyway. And if she -ever- made an attempt to "shake her tail feathers" at me (I'm still hoping for that one), I don't care if there is only one feather and it promptly falls off....she'll get a male "standing ovation" for it anyway.

-- B.

[CharlieBrown]

B -

Thanks for the link to the Taken in Hand website. I thinkfind your approach is more in the realm of something I can get my head around and see myself doing. Where did you coem up with the full s/a and the safe word concepts? Was it from the TIH site?

CB

[Bagheera]

Thanks for the link to the Taken in Hand website. I thinkfind your approach is more in the realm of something I can get my head around and see myself doing. Where did you coem up with the full s/a [actually D/s, I presume] and the safe word concepts? Was it from the TIH site?

Big disclaimer here, CB;

A "proper" Taken in Hand (TIH) relationship is a full-time form of Dominance/Submission (D/s) where the man RULES the relationship and household 24/7 and can use what is called Domestic Discipline (DD), generally in the form of a spanking, to keep his wife 'in line.' This is NOT what my wife and I have or practice.

In my marriage, I am expected to LEAD the relationship and household, not by dictates or discipline (except when the children require it), but by consent and respect for my wife's needs, views, and opinions --> which she has NO problem expressing ;). Also by the consent and deep -trust- of my wife, I am expected to RULE the sexual relationship, as I discussed in the previous post. That's why I was careful to say that we have a "sexual D/s relationship," which is different from a full-time D/s relationship. In other words, I shift my leadership style between simply "dominant" outside of the bedroom, to "authoritarian" inside of the bedroom, as context dictates. This is what works for us at the moment --> things have shifted dramatically over the past year, but the results have pleased both of us, so far.

The important point, however, is that it was MY WIFE who requested these shifts in our relationship dynamic. She didn't want to lead the family: she wanted me to do it. She didn't want to dominate in the bedroom, she wanted me to do it. I didn't ask her to make herself sexually available to me at all times, SHE found that article and sent it to me. And she is quite happy with these changes and I have her full consent and trust in making them.

I would, however, be VERY carefully suggesting such things as the -man- in the relationship. Your best approach is to ask your wife to work on the stuff suggested in Part II of The SSM, which includes the Just Do It! idea, and see where things go from there. If, at some point down the road, you get some clear indications that your wife wants you to be even more dominant in the relationship (in or out of the bedroom), then you can cross that bridge when you come to it. Throughout this entire process open, honest, frequent COMMUNICATION is paramount.

-- B.

P.S.: you also asked about the "safe word" concept. Google it, and I'm sure you'll come up with a bunch of material. It comes from the BDSM community, but is a good system to set up -anytime- your sexual play goes beyond the gentle and "vanilla."

[DanceQueen]

So Baggy...you know we miss you around here....I was wondering why we get so few updates from you? Is it because you and Mrs. B have it all figured out now? Or is it because things are actually worse now? Or is it because you have such good counsel that we at SSM have nothing new to tell you anymore???? (sorry, I'm a mom....with built in guilt inducers). We will never know unless you tell us!

DQ

[Bagheera]

So Baggy...you know we miss you around here....I was wondering why we get so few updates from you?

Everything for the moment is "steady as she goes": not entirely smooth sailing, but not too choppy, and still moving forward. Each time the Missus and I have a smooth 2-week interval in between counseling sessions, the therapist has the opportunity for individual 1-hour sessions to dig into our very personal past issues: as you know, both my wife and myself are products of childhood abuse in one form or another, which will take time to sort out and heal. Each time we have a not-so-smooth interval, we generally do a 2-hour couples session and dig into what occurred and why, seek mutual understanding, and set the stage for a smoother interval the next time around. We're still moving forward in two-steps-forward, one-step-back fashion.

Because a lot of the ground that we are currently covering in counseling deals with child abuse issues and its affects on adult survivors, I don't share a lot here because it's pretty private stuff and often beyond the scope of this public SSM forum. I do share a little more over on a private forum that contains a number of folks who were formerly here, which gives me -some- feedback on the process that the wife and I are going through.

And when I see opportunities to help out here, I do jump in.

-- B.