Oh, but I am a bit scared of actually being sexy. What if he still doesn't care? What do I do when/if someone else pays attention to me? I am so hungry for attention, but I really only want it from him.
You be sexy for you, because you are a sexual woman. Yes, it would be nice if he would respond ... it would also be nice if you didn't start getting a lot of outside attention ... but that's not the point. There's no need to dress or carry yourself in public a way that declares, "Store now open for business." It's about caring for yourself in ways that honor your sexuality, be that wearing a certain color, doing your makeup/hair/nails, learning to belly dance, wearing really slutty underwear, or whatever makes YOU feel sexy. One of the worst things about a SSM is how it can rob you of your own sense of sexuality ... but at least some of that, you DO control. And it's independent of anyone else's validation.
Originally Posted By: "mamalala"
He says we had a great time on our weekend away (we did) and we had a great mother's day (we did), what exactly do I want? He says if it had been a month and he had been a d**k to me, he could understand, but he has been really trying, so what is my problem? What is my problem? I didn't even know what to say to him.
I'm going to disagree with the consensus opinion a bit here. Only because I was there and did that with my husband. He complained in almost the same words that he HEARD me and he was TRYING and NOTHING would be good enough for me, would it? In part, that was his defensiveness talking, true. But at the same time, it had merit. I know in myself, when he started really trying, it was like I was a starving person who had just stumbled into a restaurant and just wanted to gorge myself. It was my deprivation talking. Now that a healthy physical/sex life seemed like it might actually be possible, I wanted it all and I wanted it now ..... before it disappeared somehow. It was understandable, but also somewhat disrespectful and unappreciative of his efforts.
It's a fine line .... you DON'T want to send the message that he "fixed everything" with a couple of good encounters. At the same time .... honest empathy and recognition of his efforts are in order. It's easy to go a little nutz when it feels like they're FINALLY starting to hear you ... but it can be counterproductive.
You have every right to be angry and hurt. But you will probably get better results if you concentrate on his good points and efforts and genuinely vibe in a friendly manner toward him. And a sense of humor is a Godsend, if you can manage it at all.
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
Agree with Kett on keeping your R friendly and fun and happy, and always keeping in mind his positives. As you have demonstrated already in your posts. Also agree with the right level of careful pushing/then backing off which you need to read and act accordingly along your path.
Kett: Is your advice for Lala to NOT schedule a discussion and back off completely at this time? What exact advice are you disagreeing with, and what would be your recommended action at this time?
I wasn't disagreeing with any specific advice per se, more the general air of "He's trying to back you off! Don't let him!!" I don't even disagree with that, necessarily. Without being inside his head, it's hard to say. His statement that I quoted above just reminded me of my experience, in which my husband had a legitimate beef with my attitude, and I wanted to chip in my 2 cents about the dangers of *over*pushing.
SO often these situations get resolved in a "two steps forward, one step back" fashion, and that's ok, IF the starved spouse can find ways to endure it.
I dunno about the Big Talk. It's important to be *perfectly* clear about the nature of the problem and stand firm for the legitimacy of your desires .... but it makes the stakes awfully high, and can seem 'pressuring' all on its own. Who likes to hear, "We Need To Talk?"
OTOH, maybe that's what it takes to be taken seriously. It really depends on the personalities involved, and the data here is insufficient, from my POV.
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
Welcome mama...you've obviously found yourself in the right place where people who know what you are going through can actually help you!
You are in a tough position, because the naturally LD person will almost ALWAYS become defensive when they are called to the carpet about being LD. Even though he has said in the past that it will get better, and even though he intellectually knows that you need it more often than once per month, he will still be defensive when you finally bring it up again.
To me, the best way to handle that is this: no matter how defensive he gets, you just watch him and realize this is how MOST naturally LD people behave and react, and you realize that his words are not a true reflection of how he feels. They are just the first REACTION to your bringing it up...but they are only in reaction. His words during that time are not his well thought out words of truth. They are just the normal defense an LD person puts up when the get called out.
You can expect this defensiveness in nearly every conversation you ever have with him....UNTIL one day you have the conversation that actually makes him want to do his part of the work. Until that conversation happens, he will be defensive every time. Just don't react to his defensive reaction! That is always your best tactic. Stay calm and loving, no matter what he says. (I do realize this is hard to do when you are sexually frustrated!)
For some people, that one conversation that actually begins true change, is an ultimatum, or a threat of a future ultimatum. For other people, that one conversation will happen in therapy with a counselor. And for still others, the one conversation will happen after the LD person reads the right book or article that really makes them finally "see" what they are doing to their spouse.
Always keep remembering that the naturally LD person really has no idea how sexually frustrated you are. They are not doing this to you on purpose to torture you, although it may feel that way.
Now I have to say one more thing, and this may not be a popular opinion...but if he has porn on his computer (or you have caught it in the past) then if I were you, I would simply demand that this stop and I mean NOW. I would also demand transparency on this issue (ie: if he looks at it, he has to admit it to you and show you what he was looking at). I would demand that from him because if he is wasting his sexual energy on masterbation while you are trying to recover an SSM, it will very greatly inhibit his desire to actually have sex. (And I also have the personal opinion that men are lazy lovers when they only masterbate to porn instead of using their minds and imagination...it is very easy to become visually aroused for them...the problem is that then their bodies associate ONLY visual arousal with sexual release...they begin to lose the association of BEING WITH THEIR WOMAN with sexual release...but again, this is not a popular opinion).
That's my two cents. Really happy you have found your way here! There is not too many other places like it!
Re: Porn. At the time he promised he would not ever never again, and I have not caught him at it, really. About a week and a half ago, I did catch a glimpse on TV and he pretended he was surfing and changed the channel fast. It was a glimpse only so I cannot be sure, but I had a strong feeling. He does leave certain facts out sometimes to avoid conflict. There was a time about two years ago that he went to a strip club on a business trip, and he failed to mention it to me. Then I found a t-shirt from the club while unpacking his suitcase. So dumb, cause I would have been ok if he had just told me about it. And I have always told him that I know there are times in a guys life when he ends up in a strip club, like it or not (bachelor parties, etc.) and I am ok with him being there as long as no lap dances and he tells me about it. So why didn't he tell me? He says he didn't want to start a fight.
OK, so here's my big question. How do I act happy when I am miserable? I just called him to ask a question about our e mail account and he was totally snippy. I thought things were at least a little better before he left this morning. I guess I was wrong. So how do I plaster a smile on my face when he walks in the door?
[quote=DanceQueen] Now I have to say one more thing, and this may not be a popular opinion...but if he has porn on his computer (or you have caught it in the past) then if I were you, I would simply demand that this stop and I mean NOW. I would also demand transparency on this issue (ie: if he looks at it, he has to admit it to you and show you what he was looking at). I would demand that from him because if he is wasting his sexual energy on masterbation while you are trying to recover an SSM, it will very greatly inhibit his desire to actually have sex. (And I also have the personal opinion that men are lazy lovers when they only masterbate to porn instead of using their minds and imagination...it is very easy to become visually aroused for them...the problem is that then their bodies associate ONLY visual arousal with sexual release...they begin to lose the association of BEING WITH THEIR WOMAN with sexual release...but again, this is not a popular opinion).
I think that if your H enjoys porn, instead of demanding anything and instead of being critical, consider asking him if you can join him. you may discover something about him
divorced in 2003 Married in 12/2005 born 1948 wife born 1958 divorced in 2001
Oh, and Kett- you may be right. I may be pushing too hard. He really thinks he's trying and I guess he is. We ML when we went away for the weekend, and then this weekend he got up early to make me mother's day breakfast, but didn't ML this weekend. (goodness knows it will NEVER happen on a weknight!) So all that was so nice he can't understand what I have to be unhappy about.
But I am unhappy. Unhappy that I found him watching that porn, unhappy that he almost immediately turns off after we ML and starts talking about the kids or my mother or his mother or ANYTHING unsexy before the sweat even dries, oh just not happy about a lot of stuff. Trying to get happy now so I'll stop.
I'm actually with DQ on the question of porn. *Especially* if it's hidden solo porn use.
Originally Posted By: mamalala
he almost immediately turns off after we ML and starts talking about the kids or my mother or his mother or ANYTHING unsexy before the sweat even dries
My h. used to do this too. And it hurt me as it hurts you.
He doesn't do that anymore. He may still fall asleep, but there's none of that weird 'discussing the state of the economy' pitiful excuse for post-coital pillow talk. Let me ask him why it changed and I'll get back to you.
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
Hmmm... Bob makes an interesting point about the porn. It IS helpful to understand what turns your man on. If he's not willing to talk about his fantasies (that is, if you have established that he is not able to talk about it,) observing his choices in porn might be helpful.
It's too early right now to take any action here. Just an interesting point to ponder.
Lucky, that's totally true, too...but in mamalala's case, I just suspect that he's draining what little sexual energy he has on a cheap and powerless solo orgasm...and so that's why I'd demand that it stop (the porn) and that most of his sexual energy be directed toward ME if I were her...however...as you are saying, once they get to the point of actually having some honest sexual discussions, I do hope they can find a way to enjoy porn together or at least learn a lot about each other! Until then, I think mr. mamalala KNOWS that its not cool for him to do this, and he should stop out of respect for what she is going through.
Also I have admitted before that when I was married and felt completely LD/ND toward my husband, I did still masterbate, mostly out of boredom (no porn though), quite frequently. And I know from that experience that, yes, I was draining what little sexual energy I may have had on something that really wasn't good for me anyway. I did also know on some level that this was cheating him out of something. I didn't tell him about it, obviously, as most people don't share their MB habits with each other. Not telling him was a sign I knew it wasn't quite right. It would be one thing if it was infrequent, but it wasn't. It was actually selfish of me, and I knew it somewhere inside. I was too lazy to figure out how to engage him (though lord knows I tried at other times...you know my story that way...I digress).....I was too lazy to even truly figure out how to be comfortable with true intimacy. Masterbation in replacement of sex with a partner, causes you to continue a bad cycle. Whereas fulfilling sex with a partner stimulates your whole being and sends you on a forward path. I know that mr. mamalala knows this under his skin, too.
So mamalala...just remember that he DOES KNOW that he is cheating you out of something when he masterbates and that he DOES KNOW that he should focus on you instead. Keep that in mind, expect him to be defensive, but stand your ground on everything. If you can do it with as little emotion as possible, great.
